No negotiations with Microsoft in progress
There’s a rumour circulating that Ubuntu is in discussions with Microsoft aimed at an agreement along the lines they have concluded recently with Linspire, Xandros, Novell etc. Unfortunately, some speculation in the media (thoroughly and elegantly debunked in the blogosphere but not before the damage was done) posited that “Ubuntu might be next”.
For the record, let me state my position, and I think this is also roughly the position of Canonical and the Ubuntu Community Council though I haven’t caucused with the CC on this specifically.
We have declined to discuss any agreement with Microsoft under the threat of unspecified patent infringements.
Allegations of “infringement of unspecified patents” carry no weight whatsoever. We don’t think they have any legal merit, and they are no incentive for us to work with Microsoft on any of the wonderful things we could do together. A promise by Microsoft not to sue for infringement of unspecified patents has no value at all and is not worth paying for. It does not protect users from the real risk of a patent suit from a pure-IP-holder (Microsoft itself is regularly found to violate such patents and regularly settles such suits). People who pay protection money for that promise are likely living in a false sense of security.
I welcome Microsoft’s stated commitment to interoperability between Linux and the Windows world - and believe Ubuntu will benefit fully from any investment made in that regard by Microsoft and its new partners, as that code will no doubt be free software and will no doubt be included in Ubuntu.
With regard to open standards on document formats, I have no confidence in Microsoft’s OpenXML specification to deliver a vibrant, competitive and healthy market of multiple implementations. I don’t believe that the specifications are good enough, nor that Microsoft will hold itself to the specification when it does not suit the company to do so. There is currently one implementation of the specification, and as far as I’m aware, Microsoft hasn’t even certified that their own Office12 completely implements OpenXML, or that OpenXML completely defines Office12’s behavior. The Open Document Format (ODF) specification is a much better, much cleaner and widely implemented specification that is already a global standard. I would invite Microsoft to participate in the OASIS Open Document Format working group, and to ensure that the existing import and export filters for Office12 to Open Document Format are improved and available as a standard option. Microsoft is already, I think, a member of OASIS. This would be a far more constructive open standard approach than OpenXML, which is merely a vague codification of current practice by one vendor.
In the past, we have surprised people with announcements of collaboration with companies like Sun, that have at one time or another been hostile to free software. I do believe that companies change their position, as they get new leadership and new management. And we should engage with companies that are committed to the values we hold dear, and disengage if they change their position again. While Sun has yet to fully deliver on its commitments to free software licensing for Java, I believe that commitment is still in place at the top.
I have no objections to working with Microsoft in ways that further the cause of free software, and I don’t rule out any collaboration with them, in the event that they adopt a position of constructive engagement with the free software community. It’s not useful to characterize any company as “intrinsically evil for all time”. But I don’t believe that the intent of the current round of agreements is supportive of free software, and in fact I don’t think it’s particularly in Microsoft’s interests to pursue this agenda either. In time, perhaps, they will come to see things that way too.
My goal is to carry free software forward as far as I can, and then to help others take the baton to carry it further. At Canonical, we believe that we can be successful and also make a huge contribution to that goal. In the Ubuntu community, we believe that the freedom in free software is what’s powerful, not the openness of the code. Our role is not to be the ideologues -in-chief of the movement, our role is to deliver the benefits of that freedom to the widest possible audience. We recognize the value in “good now to get perfect later” (today we require free apps, tomorrow free drivers too, and someday free firmware to be part of the default Ubuntu configuration) we always act in support of the goals of the free software community as we perceive them. All the deals announced so far strike me as “trinkets in exchange for air kisses”. Mua mua. No thanks.
June 16th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
[...] Qui trovate il post originale. [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Thank you for taking the time to clarify your point of view here.
regards
June 16th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
[...] Mark Shuttleworth has felt it necessary to respond to some of the speculation that Ubuntu, upon which Linspire is based, may be the next GNU/Linux distribution to make a deal with Microsoft under the pressure of unspecified patent infringement claims. For the record, let me state my position, and I think this is also roughly the position of Canonical and the Ubuntu Community Council though I haven’t caucused with the CC on this specifically. [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
[...] In seinem Blog äußerte Shuttleworth nun seine Meinung, die seiner Auffassung nach auch die des Ubuntu Community Council und der Firma Canonical ist. Auch sagt er, dass er mit dem Ubuntu Community Council darüber noch garnicht gesprochen habe. Unmissverständlich schreibt Shuttleworth: [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Great to hear this from you.
Let’s not pay too much attention to what SVN has to say. He seems to misunderstand Debian and Ubuntu a lot.
Now if only more companies would realize that Free Software and Free Standards can be in their own advantage and are always in the advantage of the end user. I’m glad some companies see this already (Sun, Intel).
June 16th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Thank you Mark.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
How about Canonicals deal with Linspire and the recent deal Linspire made with Microsoft?
Mark Shuttleworth says:
It’s likely that Ubuntu users will still get the option to use CNR if they want to. We won’t make CNR a default platform in Ubuntu, but we recognize that user choice is important and it’s not our style to take a punitive position towards derivatives of Ubuntu - they exist to meet specific users needs that we don’t meet, and we exist to provide a platform for our own values. So while I differ deeply from Linspire’s stated position now, I respect their right to choose their own path.
June 16th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Your clear positioning and points of view are thinks that make me adept of Ubuntu Community and keep my enthusiasm high. In time: very cool post title !
June 16th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
[...] Fonte: No negotiations with Microsoft in progress - Mark Shuttleworth [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Way to go, Mark!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
[...] More here at Mark Shuttleworth’s blogpost. [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
I really believe that Microsoft’s end game is to stop the everyday person from using Linux, period. The restrictions recently made on compiling applications in GCC having memory limited to 32mb in Windows Vista is just the latest reminder.
I believe the community’s time would be better spent in making Linux an even better server and desktop environment and in extending Linux to work better, or completely, on all popular hardware. In short, the deals with linux should be with the hardware companies. I think the lack of BIOS support is a bigger issue then any deal that could be made with Microsoft. Helping the Linux community with the momentum we have now is no benefit for Microsoft. Our religious differences are polar opposites.
Bottom line, I am one of those people that believes the Linux community is scaring Microsoft with its growth in the desktop world and that the community should keep on scaring them, No deals. Even if the patents were real, we would not stop doing what were are doing.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Glad to see that you, too, consider these patent claims no threat. As McKinney said: thank you.
June 16th, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Indeed thank you for being an example!
June 16th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
[...] Mark Shuttleworth, fundador de Ubuntu, señala en su blog hoy que a pesar de los rumores circulando al respecto, dado los recientes acuerdos de otras distribuciones de Linux (Linspire, Xandros, Novell, etc) que Ubuntu ha rechazado a discutir cualquier acuerdo con Microsoft bajo la amenaza de violación de patentes. Mark señala que dichas alegaciones no tienen ningún mérito legal, y no sirven como motivo para colaborar con Microsoft. Una promesa por parte de Microsoft de sugeridad para evitar la posible violación de patentes no tiene valor alguno, y no vale la pena pagarlo. En realidad, Mark comenta, que no protegen al usuario si una violación ocurre, y aquellos que pagan solo obtienen un seguro incierto. Mark aplaude al menos los comentarios públicos de Microsoft en respecto a la interoperablidad entre Linux y Windows; en lo que se refiere al formato de documentos, Mark no tiene confianza en el formato OpenXML de Microsoft: las especificaciones del formato no están completas, y la propia versión de Office 12 no ha sido certificada por la propia Microsoft como válida. El formato ODF es mejor, y de hecho, un estándard global dada su adopción universal. A veces Ubuntu ha sorprendido a la comunidad al anunciar acuerdos con empresas como Sun, que aunque no acceptaran el modelo GPL al principio, debido a cambios de administración o dirección, ahora si lo acceptan (aunque todavía se espera la licencia de Java a este modelo, según Shuttleworth señala). Por lo tanto Shuttleworth no objeciona a una colaboración con Microsoft que promocione el software libre, y que caracterizarlos como “demonios por naturaleza” no es constructivo. Pero Shuttleworth no cree que esta último intento de Microsoft ayude a dicho propósito. Shuttleworth permanece en su interés a “llevar el software libre tan lejos como pueda”…”Todos los acuerdos (de Microsoft) me parece un cambio de cachivaches por besos en el aire. Mua Mua, No, gracias”. [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
[...] June 16th, 2007 [link][more] [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Excellent! And thank you as well!
“The first product that Microsoft makes that doesn’t suck will be when they try to make a vacuum cleaner.”
June 16th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Thanks, Mark.
June 16th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
[...] No negotiations with Microsoft in progress [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
cantormath> it is not the end user microsoft is making money with. they make money with company licenses and support. i think it does not bother them if you or me use linux. what scares M$ is that more and more BIG clients are using linux. so they try to shed fear with their statements. and unfortunately it is working. without their claims they would not make a cent with linux from novell, xandros or linspire.
June 16th, 2007 at 7:19 pm
spread fear of course ^^
June 16th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Nice to hear though personally I don’t think it was ever in doubt. Even if we did not trust Mark on this (which I personally do) it has to be recognised that Ubuntu is tied very closely to it’s community. This is a large reason for it’s current success* and Mark and Canonical are to be applauded for their efforts allowing it to happen. Given the importance of the community and how people have responded elsewhere to these deals (tumble weed and ghost towns comes to mind) it would be suicide to make such a deal. Hence even if Canonical were ‘evil’ it would be disastrous to make such a move.
Some of the comments I have seen and heard recently are starting to sound of McCarthyism. Basically the rumours around ‘Ubuntu being next’ were due to a quote ‘I’d love to work with Microsoft’ taken entirely out of context, the fact Linspire is now based upon Ubuntu (huh, Free software anyone?) and that CnR will soon run on Ubuntu (which is largely a Linspire business venture in any case). The first one is a blatant distortion and the last two seem like something that Linspire would have done anyway and there would be no benefit to Ubuntu in resisting that. This ‘Who can shout Communist the loudest’ trend is worrying and hopefully is something that will die down once the reality of the situation becomes more clear.
*I’m not sure I can remember many such grass roots movements get this far this fast. 8m users practically from word of mouth. Exceptional.
June 16th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Mark, this is one of the best announcements on your behalf for a long time. It’s a relief - no less!
June 16th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Thank you, Mark. I appreciate your commitment to software freedom. I’m finally getting away from Windows and am really enjoying using and learning Ubuntu/GNU/Linux. Based on your past statements and Ubuntu/Canonical positions, I wasn’t really worried about Ubuntu signing one of these bogus deals, but I thought about how much of a pain it would be to have to switch so soon after finally wading in. It’s good to see a clear statement against this gorilla dust.
June 16th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Thank you for protecting us from their big mouse trap
Thank you for helping spreading the love
June 16th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
[...] Schön, dass das nun auch gesagt ist. MyBlog, Linux, Freedom [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Dear Mark,
do you want to tell us Canonical and Ubuntu don’t support the open source movement, but only the free software?
Do you want to clarify this issue?
Thanks for your works, an excellent work!!
June 16th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Thank you for making that clear!
Though I switched back to debian for the ppc support, i’m very glad to hear ubuntu is still under sane leadership.
June 16th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Thank you for a balanced and clear position on the issue of a possible partnership with Microsoft. Personally I think two other companies might be next on the list and Ubuntu wasn’t on that list
June 16th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
MS has lost the leadership of Desktop OS from the technical point of view a few years ago. They have never done anything good for the server side. People slowly start to understand how bad MS products are and how good alernatives can be but i is now too late for Microsoft to do anything better. Their OS is defective by design, fixing it would probably mean a lot of work and a lot of angry customers. Now the only way to keep control over the market is therfore not to fight on the technical field but on the legal field. Thank you mark for not playing that game.
June 16th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
This is great, thanks!
June 16th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
I knew you would make the right choice in this ‘MS deals’ drama.
June 16th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Thank you very much, Mark.
I am waiting for the collaborative version with the team of gNewSense.
An Ubuntu user (# 14413) from Barcelona.
June 16th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
[...] Lo asegura Mark Shuttleworth en su blog, el fundador de Canonical Ltd, empresa destinada a dar soporte comercial a Ubuntu que el mismo financia. [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
[...] responds to Microsoft/Ubuntu rumors Jump to Comments For some reason there has been a rumor of an agreement a la Novel/Microsoft or MS and Xandros,featuring MS and Ubuntu. It appears that someone took a quote out of context when searching Shuttleworth quotes. Mark thinks it would be great to work with Microsoft in a way that would promote both freedom and interop, not in a way that provide patent indeminification. The good news is the Ubuntu community has debunked the rumors and stories floating around the blogsphere. This post is perhaps one of the best, in fact it is the one Mark quotes in his blog entry responding to the actual criticism and the rumor. [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Thanks, Mark. Glad to hear it directly from you.
June 16th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Hi Mark,
You say: “While Sun has yet to fully deliver on its commitments to free software licensing for Java, I believe that commitment is still in place at the top.”
Sun did deliver on Java Liberation Day (November 13, 2006) the hotspot runtime and the javac compiler and at their last JavaOne event (May 8, 2007) almost all of the core class libraries under the GPL. The parts not released yet are mainly parts that their “partners” don’t allow them to release freely. But the community already started on replacement and produced a fully free bootstrappable java environment based on OpenJDK and parts of GNU Classpath build with GCJ http://icedtea.classpath.org/
Is there anything more you want to see them deliver? Can Canonical/Ubuntu help with IcedTea/OpenJDK and/or the further liberation of Java?
Cheers,
Mark
Mark Shuttleworth says:
Yes, I do believe Sun is on track to complete the process, and I did not mean to imply any bad faith in saying that they have yet to deliver. I think we can consider the process done when Glassfish, Netbeans, and other Java-based components that depend on the JVM can move into our “main” component, and we’re not there yet.
June 16th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
Thank you Mark.
June 16th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Cantormath, do you REALLY think Microsoft deliberately applied the restriction JUST to stop GCC from working with > 32 MB of RAM? Really?
Facts:
1. He was compiling an MS-DOS app. MS-DOS. That too with 4-5 year old stuff. It’s a surprise MS-DOS apps are supported by Vista at all.
What’s the big deal in using the Win32 API anyway? As someone on reddit said, statically link to them if there is a free/non free problem.
Then he rants about how it worked perfectly in earlier versions of Windows. Well, tough luck, but later versions of software do gradually drop support for deprecated stuff. MS-DOS has been deprecated for years.
http://programming.reddit.com/info/1e1vn/comments/c1e4sy
2. The restriction was there since Windows Server 2003. You may be aware that Vista is based on it. So this isn’t NEW in Vista.
3. The person (at least earlier) wrote the OS as “W*ndows V*sta”, and the vendor as “M*crosoft”. From what I understand, it’s his one man crusade against trademarks or something.
He also blocks ALL IPs from M*crosoft..err..Microsoft, shows them a 403.
He put in some entirely unrelated arguments on that page of his: http://www.trnicely.net/misc/vista.html (what does one version of Nero not working in Vista have to even do with this?) It seems like he wants to slam Vista for the sake of slamming it.
These actions portray him more as a clueless nutcase than anything else.
I realise he was the one who discovered the Pentium bug; that, however, does not grant him a perpetual licence to portray something as something entirely different.
June 16th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Thanks, Mark. You made my day!
June 16th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
This statement is a great moral support for the Free Software community. It is good to emphasize the ideals of the community and the reasons why we are working on free software at all. I’m very impressed with the commitment and daring you in particular and Canonical as a company (if they come to an official press release with this position) have shown in supporting the ideals and interests of all computer users out there.
June 16th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
Thank you very much, Mark.
An Ubuntu user from Barcelona.
June 16th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
[...] Mark Shuttleworth » No negotiations with Microsoft in progress Via: Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » No negotiations with Microsoft in progress [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
One more stupid who things ODF is beter… LOL
June 16th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
thinks*, better*
Mark Shuttleworth says:
Yes, I do think ODF is better. And I think you made your own true point rather eloquently yourself. Thank you.
June 16th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
[...] Mark Shuttleworth firmly places his stance on Microsoft and supposed patent infringement. [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Which merely means you are discussing an agreement with Microsoft where they have identified particular patent infringement then.
Why not categorially state you are not discussing anything with Microsoft at this time. That would have been cleaner.
Mark Shuttleworth says:
Because it would create the impression that I would never speak with Microsoft, and that’s just not true. I have friends who work there, for a start, and I’m open minded to collaboration on terms and goals that I think are constructive for free software. I went to some lengths to explain that I think it is better for us to hold our values out clearly, and encourage others to embrace them too, regardless of their past positions.
Microsoft representatives have asked if Ubuntu would engage on the issues that have apparently driven their other announced deals. I said that we had no interest in discussing terms driven by allegations of patent infringement without details of the patents in question. And that killed the thread, so to speak. But if Microsoft publishes details of patents, then ALL OF US in the free software community are obliged to engage with Microsoft. The law is the law, and we would be doing our users in the USA a disservice if we did not take steps to work around the patents in question, or obtain Microsoft’s permission, or have the patents invalidated.
So you should assume that I have an open door to Microsoft. I laid out the goals to which I, Canonical and Ubuntu are working, and hope that people will trust that all conversations we have with other entities - from Debian to Sun and Microsoft and IBM, are aimed at furthering those goals.
June 16th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
lets aim for the sky.
meet mac os x standards,ignore MS for now
we have a long way to go …lets focus
June 16th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
To clarify, Microsoft did approach Canonical or related organizations right?
> I have no objections to working with Microsoft in ways that further the cause of free software,
Just make sure to count your fingers after you shake on it.
June 16th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
I don’t understand. What do you have to loose? It would appear that your fear of patent infringement is real and that you’re letting everybody else “test the waters”.
June 16th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
@ cantormath
As someone who has worked on Win32 API replacements and worked with Windows internals for years, I can say that the claims that Vista is in any way restricting the RAM use of such applications are complete BS. GCC is using APIs which have been deprecated for many years and expecting them to continue working, despite that everyone’s been telling them the opposite. If they simply change their memory routines to use the proper functions (HeapAlloc and its cohorts) everything will work just fine. This is what happens when you’re too stubborn to change to the right functions.
Sorry, the GCC devs are at fault there, not MS.
- Cody
June 16th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
[...] Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth has posted a message stating the Ubuntu is not discussing patent deals with Microsoft. “Allegations of ‘infringement of unspecified patents’ carry no weight whatsoever. We dont think they have any legal merit, and they are no incentive for us to work with Microsoft on any of the wonderful things we could do together. A promise by Microsoft not to sue for infringement of unspecified patents has no value at all and is not worth paying for. It does not protect users from the real risk of a patent suit from a pure-IP-holder (Microsoft itself is regularly found to violate such patents and regularly settles such suits). People who pay protection money for that promise are likely living in a false sense of security.” 17 Jun 07 | Source link | Linux | | On Server Also: [...]
June 16th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Mark. Good news from you. It is not an easy matter. For none of us. You represent “something” in our community, and most of the time you are able to keep the “balance”. Microsoft is not a danger till it attacks directly, we are more then Linspire, Xandros or Novell, … We participate in a different environment. They all should thanks us for our job… Free is not gratis, money is not devil, but the model of linux cannot be sinked by any kind of commercial agreement. Without being ideological and simply being rational, it is a different way to conceive technology and society. The future of our sons and daughters, and much more.
I call this moment “the after Windows era”, or in other words “the Free Software Era”.
Go ahead all.
Do not get afraid about giants falling, they are just noisy.
And really thanks to you, people from the Linux world, with all your different ideas, for your efforts…
edoardo batini
June 16th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Thanks Mark. I’m really glad to read this. I agree with you 100%. I was actually talking about the Xandros and Linspire deals just before I saw your post. Reading your post really gave me a great sense of pride to be an Ubuntu user.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:07 am
Allegations of “infringement of unspecified patents” carry no weight whatsoever.
Mark, I believe you’ve stated your position(and that of the FOSS community) perfectly. Bantering around “you’re infringing patents, but we won’t say which” serves no role in enabling interoperability. I certainly hope Microsoft comes around and stops going around with an open right hand(interop) and a fist in the other(patent threats).
And BTW, I do recall that Microsoft certainly IS a member of OASIS.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:09 am
McKinney> Perception is everything. Microsoft realizes this. If people use Linux at home, they loose some fear, uncertainty and doubt about Linux, which can lead to changes in their business decisions. Remember the FUD isn’t just being spread to the business owners, its being spread to everyone, its on the news and all over the Internet. FUD is targeting everyone who does not know about Linux. I think Desktop Linux use holds more weight long term then you give it credit and can be a great advantage to the community.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Don’t do it Mark, please. These companies are doing this because they think it is going to help THEM, NOT the Linux community. I know you’ve invested a lot of time and money into Ubuntu but it is not worth harming Linux to turn a profit.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Mark, your enterprise and that of Canonical in helping spread the joy and freedom of GNU/Linux and the most competent Free Open Source Software to the world is commended and appreciated. Thank you for also taking the proper stance concerning the mis-representations of multiple convicted felon pirate Microsoft Corporation.
You are correct in your comments about multiple convicted felon Microsoft attempting to extort money from FOSS users, in another of their protection rackets.
Having run *BSD, and GNU/Linux since 1997, I have the luxury of watching the MS Titanic grind on the ice bergs, this past decade, from a solid perch on an ever expanding, stable, secure, continent, that Microsoft denies even exists.
One question, though. Was Steve Ballmer trying to arrange the deck chairs, in that famous chair tossing incident?
Is it true that he carries on with those efforts?
It’s OK if you don’t post this, I’ve been suspended three times on Yahoo Answers for suggesting FOSS solutions to serious Microsoft troubles, so it’s not like I don’t know that convicted felon Microsoft’s criminal tentacles reach far and wide.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:19 am
Good thing. The other three have been tainted, in my opinion. Hopefully more will follow Ubuntu’s lead in that regard and refuse to bend over for MS.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:32 am
Thank you Mark for doing what is right. Although, this seems to be in your nature!
Microsoft like all companies will play down poor decisions of the past while making equally as futile efforts in the present. This inability to learn from others is what erodes them away. The arrogance and the sense that they don’t need to take a lesson isolates them.
Despite all this, I still have concerns for free software and what dark ugly traps await us as people try to turn a dishonest profit. My hope is that you and others like you can help navigate the minefield of greed.
(You may want to start by helping Dell fix their long standing customer service & product quality issues…It’s Ubuntu’s name that’s going out along with some of those machines now.)
June 17th, 2007 at 12:54 am
Mark Shutleworth aclara que NO habrá acuerdos con microsoft sobre patentes…
Ante los rumores que se propagan por internet, Mark Shuttleworth aclara en su blog que Ubuntu "ha declinado discutir cualquier acuerdo con Microsoft bajo la amenaza de infracciones de patentes", sumándose así a la opinión de la mayoría de…
June 17th, 2007 at 12:58 am
Thank you very much Mark, this clearly shows the Ubuntu community position.
“My goal is to carry free software forward as far as I can”
June 17th, 2007 at 1:39 am
Thanks Mark. Microsoft’s “nice software ya got there, be a shame if something happened to it” blather
does little to promote interoperability and diminishes the positive contributions they’ve made and any
that they might make in the future.
Having just moved from CentOS I’ve not only been impressed with Ubuntu but I’ve helped many of
my friends and family discover the power of Linux and the outstanding community around it.
I still run CentOS on my servers but Ubuntu has proven (in my opinion) to be the Linux desktop distro
that the power user has been waiting for and that the regular user can easily migrate to. It’s really made
the difference in my presentation of Open Source solutions to management and is further proof that OO
is more than ready for the enterprise.
Personally, I believe an open world demands open source.
Again my thanks to you and the entire community…
June 17th, 2007 at 1:46 am
Thank you. At last we can sleep well tonight again!
June 17th, 2007 at 1:46 am
Microsoft are putting them selfs in a award position, I hope someone calls there bluff.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:18 am
Thanks so much for clearing this this up. I dare say it was a great frustration for many seeing your words twisted as so many people have (so much so that I caved and posted on the topic myself), but this should certainly put an end to that!
Do you think Microsoft might be simply lashing out in fear at this point? Think about it: if this is what the free software community can do with only somewhere between a reported 0.3% and 3% of desktop PCs running Linux, then at the current rate of growth, traditional software vendors such as Microsoft could become largely irrelevant within several years if they don’t adapt. I know I’d be scared!
June 17th, 2007 at 2:28 am
I’m very glad Canonical/Ubuntu will not conclude any contract with Microsoft, anytime soon. Being a relatively new member of the Linux community, I welcome the efforts Ubuntu & Mark Shuttleworth have made so far and would be very disappointed if Canonical would follow the recent trend like Xandros, Linspire and others have done. If Ubuntu were to collaborate with Microsoft I would change my distribution of choice to any other *free* distribution without doubt. Until now, I will follow the further development of Ubuntu and continue using it.
June 17th, 2007 at 2:59 am
Hey, thanks for clearing that up, Mark. I think it’s really great what you’re doing with Ubuntu.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:23 am
Few distributions are good:
1. Ubuntu,
2. Mandriva
3. The rest
Three distributions now don’t have my support and I will not use any of their products, under all circumstances.
Suse, Xandros, Linspire.
Like Caldera SCO before them, they are doomed, its only a matter of time.
What these companies fail to see is that those of us who use Linux and promote Linux work in the IT field developing MS products. We are quiet aware that companies have legacy products and most want to stay put with Microsoft where possible. But day after day, Linux creeps in, one way or another, becoming the back bones of companies. We all support this, cause it makes business sense.
The new windows Office Suite is an real alternative to Office 2007, it has a better cost and it has less compatibility issue. MS can keep vista at bay with Office 2007. Even at 20 dollars for Office 2007, they may keep as its to expensive to deploy and deal with the new “propietary” specs.
Now, when the Linux World comes up with:
a) A better graphics set, QT and the others out GTK, etc, just don’t cut it, specially with fonts. They are better, though not there yet.
b) A great development environment comparble to Visual Studio. Look alikes are not enough. A good solid foundation, would do the trick. This can only be handle by a Giant company, pushing its weight.
c) The Linux foundation should come up with a regulated way on how new distributions should be deployed and the same goes with software.
d) The key other element is flash memory price, let it hit 30 dollars for 32GB. With a 6 year life cycle that is almost here now.
e) This leads us to the new killer app, OS on a stick. its right around the corner, and its based out of Linux.
MS knows this, and is rightly worried. Key word here is Flash Memory. Just imagine, work where every you can on a LEGAL version of windows working out a virtual image of windows on a Linux Stick.. I do that now. So I just put it in my pocket and done.. backing up is simple… No hassles no problems, no viruses.
And you know what.. don’t even need a Windows OS to do this… Laptops?
Look at the following picture… LCD, Keyboard, Mouse, Infrared, Wireless, Firewire, USB, Biometrics… no hard drive (Just Jump drives), no hard disk.. …
1) Ligth weight 10 hours
L3 revolutions is here, and its here to stay. MS should be worried.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:29 am
[...] Dig From:http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/127 [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 3:30 am
FYI,
On my prefious post I was refering to Open Office 2.0
I attributed the fonts to the Graphical Set, yes it has something to do with it, but the real problem is the graphical set available to the X engine. So it must be addressed.
L3 stands for:
L1 Low cost 10hrs
June 17th, 2007 at 3:32 am
[...] There ’s a rumour circulating that Ubuntu is in discussions with Microsoft aimed at an agreement along the lines they have concluded recently with Linspire, Xandros, Novell etc. (…) For the record, let me state our position: We have declined to discuss any agreement with Microsoft under the threat of unspecified patent infringements.read more | digg story [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 4:04 am
Thank you so much Mark. If Debian, Ubuntu (Canonical), Red Hat etc refuse to pay Microsoft protection money for deliberately unspecified software patents the message will eventually get through. Your comments on ODF versus OOXML were a delight to read. Microsoft has been a member of OASIS for some time and they deliberately behaved like lurkers without contributing anything positive simply because they are dead scared of being forced to operate on a level playing fielld.
June 17th, 2007 at 4:15 am
You rock Mark. I am glad to see you do not believe in this Microsoft Fud. Thank you for all the hard work.
June 17th, 2007 at 4:19 am
It’s already been five or so month now that I made a switch to linux. Currently I’m using Ubuntu and getting the hang of it now.
I’m really getting tired of Microsoft and its problems with many flaws in windows. Also they are making too much money and charging $500 for Vista and $400 for Office.
Linux is a big threaten to Microsoft and so they used scare tactic to scare linux user and community. Now I’m a big linux supporter and I support the new CPL3 which will soon releases in order to prevent Microsoft scandal and threaten tactic. If Microsoft dare to threaten linux, they’ll have to answer to all of us linux user and community. Also their stocks will fall to the bottom.
I recommend that Ubuntu stay away from Microsoft.
June 17th, 2007 at 4:28 am
> I have no objections to working with Microsoft in ways that further the cause of free software,
this sentence is self-contradictory. “working with microsoft” implies “hurting/diminishing the cause of free software.” how many companies (open source or not) have been fooled into cooperation with microsoft over the decades and today no longer exist. please don’t fall for the same old trap. don’t waste time talking to your enemy. we need nothing from them. i second the opinion that what we need is deals with the hardware manufacturers. dell, hp, toshiba, asus, gateway, etc..
June 17th, 2007 at 4:31 am
thanks Mark - linux/open source could use about 20 more folks like you.
you are on the mark about microsoft’s open xml too - I have been trying to make it all the way through the 47 meg pdf file that is their specification and there is no way any developer much less company could totally implement the spec. like you said microsoft hasn’t even fully impemented the spec. but here ODF is implemented in quite a number of products and continues to grow.
thanks again and I am really enjoying feisty - very nice indeed great job keep up the great work it is appreciated!
June 17th, 2007 at 5:41 am
This is a very good development. Thanks much for this post Mark.
June 17th, 2007 at 5:48 am
“Mua mua. No thanks.”…I love the way you blow your kisses.
While I am entertained by your witty humor; I am more impressed that you see the The Interop Vendor Alliance is a potentially beneficial quorum that you should pursue.
Keep up the good work, Mark!
Jozef
Oz Enterprise/Linux Nirvana Developer
June 17th, 2007 at 7:13 am
Thank you Mark. You say quite a bit that the world needs to hear.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:38 am
That was a question on a lot of people’s minds and I’m sure they will be very pleased after reading this.
Thanks for the info.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:53 am
Thanks Mark and well said. Great leadership shown here for a very sensible and responsible position taken a sensitive issue. It makes me proud to use Ubuntu.
During these troubling times, I do think many people needed to hear this directly from you. Sometimes we are like little children who need to hear a mothers reassuring words. Hmm….yes…. a Ubuntu Hug
You have a bright future ahead of you Mark, stay true and always take Ubuntu along, make it the best and share it with the world.
June 17th, 2007 at 8:16 am
Thank you, Mark. I was angry reading the news, and then came here and I wasn’t.
I don’t know if anyone still recalls some Microsoft sponsored ads stressing what they called an instability of open operating systems - “The trouble with an Open system is you never know what it will evolve into next.” Or something. The free software world survived that misconception (though the very concept of evolution is a distinct strength that got FOSS where it is today). It will survive this one. You’re right, Mark, they’d be digging their own graves if they started a lawsuit.
In the meantime, I will be happily giving out Ubuntu CDs on campus and helping people switch to a sane alternative.
June 17th, 2007 at 8:35 am
thank you, Mark.
i have to paste the comment of a digg user, btw, that i agree with:
>Shuttleworth.. you make a deal and I press enter.. I dare you…
>sudo rm -rf /
cheers,
gravity.
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_No_negotiations_with_Microsoft_in_progress
June 17th, 2007 at 9:10 am
Thank you Mark Shuttleworth for this clear message.
I think many will like me, welcome your explicit statement that the freedom of free software is essential.
Regards,
A happy and grateful Kubuntu user.
June 17th, 2007 at 9:15 am
Thank you.
Ubuntu is awesome (although it could have better out of the box support for broadcom chips). Thanks, and keep up the great work.
June 17th, 2007 at 9:40 am
[...] According to Mark Shuttleworth- There are no negotiations with Microsoft about unspecified patent infringements. Allegations of “infringement of unspecified patents” carry no weight whatsoever. We don’t think they have any legal merit, and they are no incentive for us to work with Microsoft on any of the wonderful things we could do together. A promise by Microsoft not to sue for infringement of unspecified patents has no value at all and is not worth paying for. It does not protect users from the real risk of a patent suit from a pure-IP-holder (Microsoft itself is regularly found to violate such patents and regularly settles such suits). People who pay protection money for that promise are likely living in a false sense of security. You can read his full article here directly from his blog. [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 10:23 am
In this world of sell-outs, it is good to know that I can continue to maintain my faith in something I hope and believe is good for this planet: Ubuntu.
Thank you, Mark.
June 17th, 2007 at 10:32 am
As bad as the legacy MS-Office file formats are, they are the de-facto industry standard. The biggest reason OpenOffice isn’t more widely is its buggy support for legacy Word .doc’s and .ppt’s . What good OpenOffice is for my dad if it can’t properly open ppt presentations of LOLCATS flying F16 airplanes that he receives in the email? Let alone .doc-based government forms.
So i would propose this kind of a deal to Microsoft:
Microsoft will supply tools for reading the pre-Office12 binary formats (DOC, XLS, PPT, etc.) under a free license, and in exchange the Free Software community will adopt OpenXML as the future format of choice.
It’s a comromise: The Free Software community (rightly) hates OpenXML and Microsoft (stupidly) hates open source.
But such a deal will free Microsoft from the need to do another format war and lobby state senates against ODF; And it will give the Free Software community the necessary tools to implement OpenXML without second-guessing what Microsoft means by “Word 6 behavior”. From that point on it’s fair game: Microsoft will try to fight against the price of OpenOffice by marketing, which they usually pretty good at and the customers will get their free choice.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:05 am
You rock.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:16 am
[...] Mark Shuttleworth, the founder of Canonical (the firm behind Ubuntu), intimated in his blog that there are “no negotiations with Microsoft in progress.” That’s good news, isn’t it? [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 11:29 am
[...] Tot gisteren dan. Mark Shuttlewort, de oprichter van Ubuntu, schreef gisteren op zijn blog dat er geen onderhandelingen met Microsoft aan gang waren. There’s a rumour circulating that Ubuntu is in discussions with Microsoft aimed at an agreement along the lines they have concluded recently with Linspire, Xandros, Novell etc. Unfortunately, some speculation in the media (thoroughly and elegantly debunked in the blogosphere but not before the damage was done) posited that “Ubuntu might be next”. […] We have declined to discuss any agreement with Microsoft under the threat of unspecified patent infringements. [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Although I’m not a fan of Ubuntu,I find the position you are taking is a great benefit for all of linux.Very honorable indeed.
As stated above” linux/open source could use about 20 more folks like you.”,I would change that to say, linux/open source needs everybody to be like you.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Its good to see that Linux is about to take the next step. And I really do thing that coming together to stand strong is the next step. I didnt see it before why Microsoft would say that linux is using some stuff they own but now I get it. No company in its right mind is gonna step to Linux if theres a chance they’re violating pattents or copyrights
June 17th, 2007 at 11:37 am
I know now for sure that I made a wise choice in Ubuntu. A great distro, and a great man behind it. Thank you!!
June 17th, 2007 at 11:40 am
excellent and well said. you correctly describe microsoft’s behaviour as a protection racket. they are being stand over merchants and are bullies. we only need to stand up to them.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
[...] This reminds me of a recent blog post by Mark Shuttleworth, the founder of Ubuntu: I don’t believe that […] Microsoft will hold itself to the specification when it does not suit the company to do so [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 12:26 pm
What scary stuff.
Simple as that.
June 17th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
[...] Publicado por ardentice on 17/06/07 El titulo de este post es el mismo que Mark Shutterworth ha incluido en su blog hablando sobre la posición que Ubuntu tomara en cuanto a todo el lió con las patentes de software de otras distribuciones de GNU/Linux y Microsoft. La verdad, es que después de pensar un poco en el tema, creo que es una buena noticia para todos los usuarios de Ubuntu, la verdad es que no me gustaría tener que hacerle boikot a Ubuntu en caso de que firmara cualquier acuerdo, por lo que de la misma forma que ahora no se negociara, espero que no se haga nunca. [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
[...] Full article [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
nothing that hasn’t been said here before, but I am pleased to see such strength from the leadership of an OS that I love using and supporting.
Great to hear your views on the subject, and good for the community to know that you are not scared of the empty threat.
Microsoft settles suits over IP often, but they have found that not everyone will bow to threats like they do.
Sometimes it is better to go down fighting, thats what scares the hell out of them with linux, people are fierce advocates of things they are passionate about, and people aren’t really passionate about Windows, there is no community to fight for them.
June 17th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
[...] Wie tecChannel berichtet, hat der Ubuntu-Gründer Marc Shuttleworth nach dem Aufkommen von entsprechenden Gerüchten in seinem Blog klar gestellt, das es keine Verhandlungen zwischen Ubuntu und Microsoft geben werde. [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
I really appreciate all of the work you do, all of the money that has been invested in ubuntu is a demonstration of what Free software can do. Keep it up!!!
June 17th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Very Good!
Ubuntu says “no, thanks” as Red Hat!
http://www.computing.co.uk/vnunet/news/2189545/red-hat-sets-limits-microsoft
Best regards,
Renato
Brazil
June 17th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Thank you, Linux lives.
June 17th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Thank you very much Mak for such a clear and precise explanation, and comment.
June 17th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
You’re my Hero Mark!!!
–Ubuntu User from Malaysia–
June 17th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
[...] Questo e’ l’articolo. Buona lettura. [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
[...] Jednak nie. Mark Shuttleworth zdecydowanie i definitywnie uciął takie gdybania na swoim blogu - No negotiations with Microsoft in progress. [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 6:40 pm
Thank you, Mark. I think you are making real difference here.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
Mark,
You are correct; a technical collaboration with Microsoft would not be a bad thing. The Samba team is on record as saying that they used to do just that with MS engineers back in the day…until the bosses of those MS engineers ordered them not to anymore.
While I was at Microsoft, I met a lot of very smart people there. However, they also have a lot of stock options. Personally, I suggest that they cash out at this point, thus freeing them mentally to concentrate on good coding, like back in the day.
While I’d love to see Microsoft change its attitude, the people who run the company are not old people–they’re middle-aged folks who are generally in good health, and the stock options make it very attractive for these people (e. g. Craig Mundie) to stay. Only those who tow the Gates/Ballmer line will be promoted into an executive position. So, it may be a long while before the company starts actually playing nicely with F/OSS developers and advocates.
The most recent examples are the patent sabre-rattling and the “Uh-Oh-XML” format push.
I didn’t believe that you’d sell out. But it’s good to see you state that definitively here.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Great, stay straight!
June 17th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
thank you mark…
i respect and admire your opinion on “no objections to working with Microsoft in ways that further the cause of free software”. Sadly as stated above i don’t see that happening anytime soon
again nice stand point.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
I am an occasional browser of this site; for interest, scavenging, broad-stroked surveillance and to have one up on the “laptop okes” in the tearoom, rather than meaningful insight or contribution by way of corroboration or critique. Nevertheless, from the cheap seats I can see something is being built. It is rising up and perched to have eternal effect. Like whole cities under construction and ruins restored, and in light of the above posting, you may well all have to build this Jerusalem’s wall as they did in the days of Nehemiah: sword in one hand and bricks in the other.
June 17th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
[...] Ubuntu: No negotiations with Microsoft in progress We have declined to discuss any agreement with Microsoft under the threat of unspecified patent infringements. [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
[...] 6to: Ante los cada vez mas frecuentes casos de empresas de linux que hacen tratos con Microsoft bajo una falsa amenaza de demandas por patentes (Léase: no estoy seguro de lo que vendo por que deje mis testículos en casa), empezó a circular el rumor de que Ubuntu sería la próxima en caer, pero Mark Shuttleworth (fundador de la distro y la empresa que la soporta) publicó un comunicado bien claro en el que resume la idea principal: [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
Thank you!
And to continue on about Microsoft,
The time they create a product that doesn’t blow, will be when they create a leaf-blower ^^
June 17th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Thank you for clarifying your position, Mark.
I do think that this post was a good example of being guided by principle, and proof that you are a man of principle.
In nature, principles are laws. They cannot be moved. They are solid, For example, you cannot move the law of nature. It’s there! If you throw something into the air, it must come down.
Likewise, a principle of integrity is immovable. If you are someone with integrity, then you cannot be moved.
Principle is what guides the open source movement. I too, like many of you, make a living out of the open source community, and I’m grateful for it.
Your stance shows your understanding of the guiding principles, and adherence is the only way. It’s a sure recipe for success.
June 17th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
[...] Shuttleworth: Não há negociações em progresso com a Microsoft O fundador do Ubuntu incluiu uma frase em negrito no texto em que repele as especulações que vinham surgindo: “Nós recusamos discutir qualquer acordo com a Microsoft sob a ameaça de patentes não especificadas”. E ele aproveita para falar o que pensa de interoperabilidade feita em código aberto, sua visão sobre o OpenXML da Microsoft e mais. E ele afirma algo em sintonia com porções extensas da comunidade: “Eu não acredito que a intenção da atual rodada de pactos é no sentido de apoiar o software livre”. “Em seu blog pessoal, Mark Shuttleworth responde de forma eloqüente e direta, aos rumores sobre o Ubuntu ser ‘a bola da vez’ na atual rodada de acordos com a Microsoft. A suspeita circulou essa semana principalmente após o anúncio do novo pacto da Microsoft com a Linspire. Leiam no link a seguir a minha tradução livre.” [...]
June 17th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Regardless of whether Microsoft really owns patents that Ubuntu breaches, the protection being offered is meaningless. What Microsoft offered to do was not sue Novell’s _customers_. But it is not the customers who are accused of breaching patents. I agree with Mark on this, don’t pay Microsoft “protection money”.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:26 pm
Glad to see your statement on this Mark, it clears the air. However, I would also appreciate it if you would clarify your position on the CNR deal. That in the light of the current Linspire/MS deal no longer smells to good.
June 17th, 2007 at 11:51 pm
The big problem with collaborations between the community and business is the very different underlying motivations of the two groups.
Corporations have only one goal - to make money. Most of them have long since cared how they do it. Sure you can make money by honest dealings and by providing for the needs of the customers, but the dishonest methods usually make much more money, at least in the short to medium term.
Software businesses long ago recognised the problems of producing a product that never wears out, and the need to make sure the customer is always forced to upgrade to a new version, either to get rid of annoying bugs or to obtain missing functionality.
Its really hard to see any of the big companies who have so far thrived using immorality and deceit as a cornerstone of their business, now singing “praise the Lord I have repented” and turning over a new leaf. Those sorts of things only really happen in movies.
In real life if a company fails to make money using one kind of con, then they will simply devise another kind. I applaud Mr Shuttleworths even handed approach and his open minded attitude towards Microsoft and his desire for them to reform, but really is it likely? Hardly.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:01 am
[...] Nada más lejos de la realidad. Como introducía en la entrada, Mark Shuttleworth ha difuminado todos esos rumores en su blog, con una frase muy contundente. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 12:24 am
[...] Despues de los acuerdos que ha firmado Microsoft con Novell, Xandros y Linspire; corria el rumor de que Canonical iba a ser el proximo en entrar en negociaciones con la poderosa compañia. Mark Shuttleworth lo ha negado en un post de su blog There’s a rumour circulating that Ubuntu is in discussions with Microsoft aimed at an agreement along the lines they have concluded recently with Linspire, Xandros, Novell etc. Unfortunately, some speculation in the media (thoroughly and elegantly debunked in the blogosphere but not before the damage was done) posited that “Ubuntu might be next”. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 12:47 am
The document format is one area I have been focusing on lately. The presence of Microsoft in the academic arena is predominantly in the form of Office documents (Word, Excel and others) and their proprietary formats. On the ground in a working environment the ODF is truly superior and we need to ensure that it comes out the winner. If ODF can indeed be that winner, and I think it will, then we will have a gold plated shining example of openness kicking major proprietary butt in the average user world.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:49 am
[...] Update: Mark Shuttleworth flatly denies Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols’ prediction of an Ubuntu-Microsoft patent deal in his blog here. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 1:00 am
[...] There ’s a rumour circulating that Ubuntu is in discussions with Microsoft aimed at an agreement along the lines they have concluded recently with Linspire, Xandros, Novell etc. (…) For the record, let me state our position: We have declined to discuss any agreement with Microsoft under the threat of unspecified patent infringements.read more | digg story Bookmark to: [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 1:06 am
[...] Source:Techmeme No negotiations with Microsoft in progress — There’s a rumour circulating that Ubuntu is in discussions with Microsoft aimed at an agreement along the lines they have concluded recently with Linspire, Xandros, Novell etc. Unfortunately, some speculation in the media (thoroughly … Source: Mark Shuttleworth Author: Mark Link: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/127 Techmeme permalink Share and Enjoy: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 1:12 am
Great to heard that, really awesome. Keep going the good work with ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu,…
Congrats!
June 18th, 2007 at 1:13 am
[...] Despues de que Novell y Linspire hayan firmado un acuerdo con Microsoft, corrian los rumeros por varios blogs de que Canonical seria la proxima. Pues podemos estar tranquilos por que hoy Mark Shuttleworth lo ha negado en su blog: No negotiations with Microsoft in progress [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 1:37 am
[...] Source: Mark Shuttleworth Author: Mark Link: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/127 Techmeme permalink [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 3:39 am
[...] Talks Tough: Does anyone care? June 18, 2007 Posted by rjdohnert in . trackback Mark Shuttleworth leader of the Ubuntu project and a respected figure in the Linux community (Imgoing to leave out First South African in Space because everyone says it so much) has stated on his blog that Canonical is not in talks with Microsoft similar to the Novell, Xandros, Linspire and LG deal. He cites “rumors on the internet” [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 3:51 am
Thanks for this update. As a happy user of Xubuntu, I am happy it is not just free, but better.
June 18th, 2007 at 3:56 am
Bla, Shuttleworths is a big bitch. I suspect that he will give in to Microsoft in a few days. Ubuntu users give linux a bad name anyway. If you want to use linux use anything but ubuntu.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:25 am
i think that a strategic move with Google would be a good move on both Google and Ubuntu’s part. think about it people, Google the biggest company that could contend with Microsoft and Ubuntu the most popular Linux out there today. that and the linux summit that is being held there and th recent move with dell shipping Ubuntu machines.
thats just an opinion. and a dream.
June 18th, 2007 at 4:52 am
Well I hope so Mark, just remember was bug no. 1 is :-).
June 18th, 2007 at 4:53 am
I mean “what” and not “was”.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:22 am
Mark you Rock.
Your deeds are your words.
We are here coming like tidal wave and planning to bring truth to mass, I am giving here some clue.
This time in INDIA we are doing something in the month of August.
Keep watching Bangalore News.
Freedom Freedom Freedom
Hail Freesoftware Community, RMS, Linus, Mark ……………………………………………………………………………………………….
June 18th, 2007 at 5:23 am
[...] Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » No negotiations with Microsoft in progress “We have declined to discuss any agreement with Microsoft under the threat of unspecified patent infringements.” - just what i expected Ubuntu’s position would be (tags: Microsoft Ubuntu Canonical distros legal license law patents) [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 5:30 am
Don’t get me wrong, but Didn’t Linspire once had a similar position? They finally ended up in Microsoft’s hands.
http://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter_archives.php?id=36
I hope, for all those who have really believed in Ubuntu, that this is not just another Linspire and Novell Story.
Keep up the good work and Open Source philosophy.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:33 am
[...] On June 16th Mark also posted something a little more lengthy about the subject which can be found here. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 5:57 am
… ubuntu!
June 18th, 2007 at 5:58 am
I can’t help from being amazed on the overall direct community feeling I get from Ubuntu! It’s really nice to hear from Mark about the question that a lot of people where wondering about.
Now if they can’t only get rid of that #1 bug
June 18th, 2007 at 7:03 am
Mark, while I deeply appreciate your support of ODF and FLOSS, I could not continue to support and promote Ubuntu if it made such a deal with Microsoft. As you state right off, it’s not needed. Thanks to your heroic efforts and direct financial support of Ubuntu, you alone have pushed GNU/Linux on the desktop further than anyone else has in my memory. Many of us in the community appreciate any effort to attract new users, especially Windows switchers as myself. But it would be a Fasutian bargain that would erode all future trust from Ubuntu’s most committed users.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:05 am
[...] There is a post on Mark Shuttleworth’s Blog where he quashes rumours and clarifies that there are no negotiations with Microsoft in progress. He also goes on to clarify his stance about a few related issues. I would not mind parroting him here, but why don’t you go ahead and read it verbatim yourself? [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 7:12 am
Dear Mark,
Thank you for making that clear!
I am going to change the linux distribution on my 4 PC’s from Novell-Suse to Ubuntu. No Microsoft Tax from me.
Since Nov. 2006 there is a bad smell in the Novell Corner.
Best regards Peter
June 18th, 2007 at 7:53 am
*** Spanish: Sobre el tema de llegar Micro$oft a acuerdos con distribuidoras de Linux, poniendo siempre la clausula de “protección” en caso de denuncia de patentes, hay quien piensa (y puede que acertadamente) que es para poner la mitad de la comunidad contra otra mitad ante un futuro juicio de patentes.
Y yo me pregunto…
¿¿¿Por qué no denunciar por difamación la comunidad Linux a Micro$oft??? ¡!
Sabemos que no puede demostrar nada contra el código abierto. Así obligaríamos a Micro$oft a mostrar su código, sería un contraataque a sus calumnias, daría confianza a la comunidad, se le metería el miedo en el cuerpo a Goliat, y lo más importante se evitaría que siguiese llegando a acuerdos y poner fines a sus oscuros planes.
Creo que Micro$oft se chuleó sabiendo que nadie la demandaría por sus declaraciones sobre las patentes, pero sería una buena jugada demandarla.
Lo malo es el precio, pero viendo las grandes empresas y pequeños usuarios ¿no se podría conseguir el dinero antes de ir a juicio? Yo por ejemplo uso Ubuntu gratis. Windows me costaria una burrada (sin contar Office, y demás programas), a cambio de todo esto que me ahorro ¿que me costaría donar una pequeña cantidad (1 € cada usuario sería mucho) para un juicio? Nada!
Un saludo.
June 18th, 2007 at 8:41 am
I wanted to just say THANK YOU! I support your stance on this in huge part for the support you have given us, the community. I have not always been a GNU/Linux user but see the light…..
June 18th, 2007 at 8:44 am
[...] Ist jetzt nach Novell, Xandros und Linspire Chanonical der nächste Vertragspartner von Microsoft? Shuttleworth begrüsst zwar die Bemühungen von Microsoft um mehr Interoperabilität. Dennoch lehnt er ein Abkommen unter unter der Bedrohung von nicht genauer benannten Patentverstöße überhaupt zu diskutieren. Für die Zukunft schliesst Shuttleworth allerdings Abkommen mit Microsoft nicht aus, falls Microsoft sich konstruktiv an der Entwicklung in der Welt der freien Software beteiligt. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 8:56 am
Thank you Mark.
I think that is important for the ubuntu community to now the intention of Canonical.
Ubuntu is a great distro made from a great man and with a great UBUNTU’s idea.
In this chaos world it’s important to to have a clear man that do a clear action.
Thank you again.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:36 am
[...] Gerüchten zufolge gilt Ubuntu als heißer Kandidat für den nächsten Microsoft-Deal. Grund genug für Mark Shuttleworth, Gründer von Ubuntu-Sponsor Canonical, die Sache in seinem Blog klarzustellen. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 9:46 am
first, i’d like to clarify that ubuntu ROCKS! great distro from every angle.
BUT, canonical is a company and business is business. if a manager at canonical thinks that someday it would be better off (money-wise for the company) striking a deal with M$, then they will do so without hesitating and releasing a public statement that says the usual about interoperability blah-blah.
most of you know that the only distro with a social contract (and community-driven in every sense) is debian (if debian “falls” then i’m moving to *bsd… if *bsd “falls” who knows? maybe hurd will be usable by then
)
i used to be a happy suse user. but when novell bought suse i was not pleased. after their controversial deal with M$ i deleted the suse partition and installed debian. from then on, nothing matters for me. as long as debian is strong (and the community behind it) there will always be a linux champion. don’t get me wrong. as i said ubuntu is a fantastic distro. but there is company behind it, and when companies are involved you know what happens to a “pure ideal”…
poutsoklis
June 18th, 2007 at 9:53 am
I think it’s a good thing to reject the microsoft negotations because you know that the only thing Microsoft want is to soffocate in every way GNU/Linux.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Great.
Thank you *very* much, Mark.
June 18th, 2007 at 10:00 am
secondly, i don’t buy the interoperability stuff. many companies move to gnu/linux for their it infrastructure. we don’t need interoperability with M$ products (and don’t give me that mono stuff again as a proof of concept for the contrary - you know we’d be better off without mono - i’m a programmer myself and don’t find anything useful in .net-style languages; my personal point of view).
let’s lock M$ out of the game like they did in the past. why should the gnu/linux community waste any valuable resources for achieving interoperability with inferior products/standards? if a company believes that gnu/linux isn’t suitable for them because it can’t operate along their M$ infrastructure, let them be locked out when gnu/linux dominates the it market. they will take a lesson in being locked with proprietary (and more important CLOSED) products/standards. why would a company like novell sport a “ME TOO” (hey, our products work with M$) badge by wasting programming resources when there are already superior products in the free world/ecosystem? let them (along with their xandros/linspire/everyone-else counterparts) go down and show the free world the lesson they took!
hey M$ managers. WE DON’T NEED YOUR MONEY! (well, maybe those of us who are not after money!)
June 18th, 2007 at 10:08 am
[...] It seems the list of open source companies who are signing agreements with Microsoft is growing. But they all share a common profile: second league, desperate companies who, instead of rethinking their business model or disappearing quietly, decide to dig their own graves with the hope of staying in business for a little longer. No wonder that the leading Linux companies are against any such agreement with Microsoft, specially if it is based on the threat of unspecified patent infringements. Microsoft is following the wrong strategy, threatening its own users and the whole industry and partnering with the losers. Will they rectify on time? What kind of company will Microsoft be in 10 years? [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 10:09 am
last but not least, in these times of turbulence, the world needs a champion/hero. a paladin who will defend pure ideals.
you know who i’m talking about. the one and only - the eternal defender - not the one with deep pockets - the VISIONAIRE: RMS
June 18th, 2007 at 10:27 am
“My goal is to carry free software forward as far as I can”
Mark, as much as I acknowledge this statement, from the so far achieved results, “as far as I can” seems to be rather limited. I’ve told you before, if you keep on going with Ubuntu as you do now, it will take years if not centuries, that you ever get any minimal progress in fixing Ubuntu bug #1. If you ever want to become successful with free software, you have to tackle the cross-platform application dilemma first. This fact hasn’t change since the Linux desktop survey (http://www.osdl.org/dtl/DTL_Survey_Report_Nov2005.pdf) has been published. Sorry for the harsh words but please open up your eyes to the real problem.
O. Wyss
June 18th, 2007 at 11:05 am
[...] Nachdem SuSe, Xandros und Linspire nun ihre jeweiligen Abkommen mit Microsoft geschlossen haben, bin ich sehr froh, dass Mark Shuttleworth nun verkündet hat, dass Canonical sich nicht in ähnlicher Weise von Microsoft erpressen lassen wird. War’s interessant? Ja, dann besteht jetzt die Möglichkeit, einen Kommentar zu hinterlassen (0) oder einen Trackback-Verweis auf das Posting zu legen. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
[...] In einem aktuellen Eintrag auf seinem Weblog erteilt entsprechenden Spekulationen nun aber eine Absage, zumindest vorerst. Derzeit gäbe es keine Gespräche mit Microsoft, man habe sich entschlossen, dass es diese unter den Vorzeichen nicht näher spezifizierter Patenverstoßvorwürfe der Redmonder einfach nicht geben könne. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Thank you Mark ! You are as sweet as I expected.
June 18th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
[...] Mark Shuttleworth: Kein Patentabkommen mit Microsoft und Ubuntu In seinem Blog stellt Mark Shuttleworth - der Schirmherr und Mzen der Linuxdistribution Ubuntu - klar, dass es kein Patentabkommen mit Microsoft ala Linspire und Novell mit Ubuntu geben werde. Eine konstruktive Zusammenarbeit zum besseren Austausch mit Microsoft solange alles in die Opensource Community fliet ist nicht ausgeschlossen, aber hierbei muss Microsoft wohl Shuttelworth berzeugen, dass die Redmonder auch deutlcih in diese Richtung gehen wollen. Zum Originaltext: Mark Shuttleworth Blog Archive No negotiations with Microsoft in progress cu Gargi __________________ The more you suffer the more it shows you really care! offspring [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Glad to read that.
Thanks Mark.
June 18th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Like Wielaard I’m a little sensitive to the comment: “While Sun has yet to fully deliver on its commitments to free software licensing for Java [...]”
We have published each and every one of the 96% of 6.5 million lines of code which comprise Sun’s implementation of Java SE under the GPL. We simply do not have the legal authority (copyright) on the remaining 4%. Thanks to Wielaard, the Classpath & Friends community and the new OpenJDK community we are hopeful to have free software alternatives for that 4% soon. And I am exquisitely aware how important it is for everyone in the Free Software world to have a Java Compatible implementation from 100% open source. We will get there soon.
When that happens OpenJDK can be a candidate for “main” and thus act as a Build-Depends for the rest of the Java Stack. And, although in “multiverse” today, we have made a substantial investment in preparing our Java Stack for the Free Software world (relicensing, refactoring, packaging, marketing, etc.).
And yes there is very serious commitment to Free Software from the top as Jonathan’s blog to Linus demonstrates. I guess all I’m asking for is a little more recognition that Sun has made good on our commitment to open source Java and, along with the community, we are making very meaningful progress towards making our entire Java Stack available to Free Software distros.
Respectfully,
–Tom
June 18th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
[...] Very well articulated view of recent patent comments from Microsoft by Mark Shuttleworth of Ubuntu/Canonical. Mark’s position is exactly what more people need to understand fully. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
[...] Primero fue Novell, luego Xandros y hace poco Linspire. Estas empresas firmaron acuerdos con Microsoft, los cuales levantaron toda clase de comentarios entre la comunidad linuxera mundial. Ahora en su blog, Mark Shuttleworth (el fundador de Ubuntu) ha anunciado que ellos no firmaran acuerdo alguno con el gigante de Redmond. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
[...] Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » No negotiations with Microsoft in progress We have declined to discuss any agreement with Microsoft under the threat of unspecified patent infringements. Published in: [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
[...] Wie der Ubuntu-Gründer und Großsponsor in seinem Blog schreibt, gibt es zur Zeit keine Verhandlungen mit Microsoft. Canonical, Ubuntu Community Council und er seien sich da einig. “Wir haben es abgelehnt, irgendein Abkommen mit Microsoft unter der Bedrohung von nicht genauer benannten Patentverstöße zu diskutieren”, schreibt Mark. Solche Abkommen hätten ohnehin keine Schutzfunktion gegenüber Patent-Abzockern. Etwas, das Novell und andere Microsoft-Kusch(l)er noch lernen werden - neben Linspire auch Xandros, die mit ihrem kürzlich abgeschlossenen Deal nur die Unterschrift unter ihre bereits lebenslang andauernde Unglaubwürdigkeit setzten… [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Brilliant……….you guys are the best, finally someone with guts.
June 18th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
[...] Sebelumnya, telah beredar desas-desus di blog yang mengabarkan bahwa Ubuntu akan mengikuti jejak Linspire, Xandros, Novell dan lainnya untuk bekerjasama dengan Microsoft. Di milis-milis lokal Indonesia pun kabar ini menyebar dan banyak menimbulkan kekhawatiran para pecinta Ubuntu. Atas menyebarnya berita miring ini, Mark Shuttleworth, Canonical CEO dan Ubuntu Linux Founder, hari sabtu kemarin, 16/06, dengan tegas membantahnya : “We have declined to discuss any agreement with Microsoft under the threat of unspecified patent infringements.” [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Another thanks, but this one comes from Czech Republic
Thank you, Mark!
June 18th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
This is very awesome to hear Mark, Thank you very much for clarifying the FUD and Ubuntu’s standings.
Ubuntu to you my friend!!!
June 18th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Thank you Mark.
June 18th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Thanks Mark, It was great to hear this
Cheers!
June 18th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
[...] In a blog post Mark Shuttleworth, founder of the Ubuntu Project, states his position regarding the recent spate of patent protection agreements with Microsoft. He believes that the allegations regarding unspecified patents carry no merit. Allegations of “infringement of unspecified patents” carry no weight whatsoever. We don’t think they have any legal merit, and they are no incentive for us to work with Microsoft on any of the wonderful things we could do together. A promise by Microsoft not to sue for infringement of unspecified patents has no value at all and is not worth paying for. [...]
June 18th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Thanks Mark for your time, and for make a working solution as UBUNTU.
Nice day for all.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Thank you, Mark.
June 18th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
[...] To read his blog click-here [...]