Quantal, raring, saucy…

Friday, October 18th, 2013

Before I launch into the tongue-twisting topic of t-series terminology I would like to say a few thank-you’s.

Saucy, now officially known as Ubuntu 13.10, is a wonderful achievement by a very large and diverse collection of teams and individuals. Each of us is motivated by something different – in fact, we might have very different visions of what the ideal desktop looks like or what the default set of applications should be. But we manage, in the spirit of ubuntu, to work together to make something wonderful like 13.10, which serves the needs and goals of a very large number of people and communities.

This release had plenty to put it under pressure. It’s the preview-LTS, in a sense, which means we need to get a lot of the “big rocks” in. That means a willingness to lead change, and doing so in such a complex inter-dependent environment is very challenging. I would like to thank all the teams who have done their part to shape that change into something that worked for them. To the KDE, XFCE and GNOME-focused communities in Ubuntu, thank you for bringing your perspective and I’m delighted that you are all making such great releases now as well.

13.10 is a very special release for me because I think we are leading the GNU/Linux world into a very important arena, which is mobile personal computing. Canonical has its fair share of competitors and detractors who love to undermine the work it does, but I think that wiser heads appreciate the magnitude of the effort required to break this ice, and the extent to which it has taken courage and grace under fire for this team to deliver such a sharp 1.0 of the mobile experience for Ubuntu. It is a reflection of the widespread interest and enthusiasm for that work that we had such diverse participation in the core applications that make up this 1.0 of Ubuntu-for-phones. Multiple teams formed spontaneously to explore new territory: a new mobile design paradigm, new SDK, new visual language. And wow, you guys pulled it off beautifully.  So many contributions from a fresh free software community is testament to the work and style of guys like Michael Hall, who epitomise collaborative development and friendly exchanges of views, motivating guys like me and a hundred others to make sure we deliver something great.

Designers, shell engineers, browser engineers, app engineers, people who built app review and publication mechanisms, security experts… I could not be more proud of what these teams have achieved together.

For the technologists there are some very significant milestones, what Rick Spencer calls “the big rocks”, that made it into 13.10.

Image based updates is really important work. For the first time we can guarantee the integrity of a device running Ubuntu, knowing exactly what version of the OS is installed. I can’t wait to get that on my laptop. Yes, it will be a big change, but I can already see how it’s going to make things easier for me. And I’ll still have the full power of raw Ubuntu inside for all my cloud development needs. Well done to the guys who conceived and delivered the mechanism and the machinery that make it possible. Image 100 is, as they say, the cake.

Mir is really important work. When lots of competitors attack a project on purely political grounds, you have to wonder what THEIR agenda is. At least we know now who belongs to the Open Source Tea Party ;) And to put all the hue and cry into context: Mir is relevant for approximately 1% of all developers, just those who think about shell development. Every app developer will consume Mir through their toolkit. By contrast, those same outraged individuals have NIH’d just about every important piece of the stack they can get their hands on… most notably SystemD, which is hugely invasive and hardly justified. Watch closely to see how competitors to Canonical torture the English language in their efforts to justify how those toolkits should support Windows but not Mir. But we’ll get it done, and it will be amazing.

I can tell you what the agenda of the Mir team is: speed, quality, reliability, efficiency. That’s it. From what I’ve seen on the smartphone, Mir is going to be a huge leap forward for gaming performance, battery life and next-generation display capabilities. So thank you for the many contributions we had to Mir, and to everyone who is testing it in more challenging environments than the smartphone. I’m enjoying it on my laptop and loving the gaming benchmarks for native Mir. So to that team, and the broader community who are helping test and refine Mir, thank you.

App containers and the associated mechanisms for application update are hugely important too. We now have a much better way for app developers to deliver an app to Ubuntu users, giving them much more control of the libraries and dependencies and updates that will affect them. We also make it much easier for developers to deliver newer versions of their app on older versions of the OS. I know that’s a top ask for many of our users, and we’ve done it for the smartphone. It will be available for the desktop as soon as we converge the two. I love seeing those app updates flow onto the phone, and I’m told the developer review and publication process is really sweet. Well done.

So yes, I am very proud to be, as the Register puts it, the Ubuntu Daddy. My affection for this community in its broadest sense – from Mint to our cloud developer audience, and all the teams at Canonical and in each of our derivatives, is very tangible today. It’s had its ups and downs this cycle :) but I feel we’ve pulled together. What the Register misses in that description is that so many of you are in fact the progenitors of Ubuntu’s goodness. Its a privilege to provide the conduit, but the generosity of all of you in making something wonderful to share through that conduit is what’s most touching.

So – saucy is in the can, and it’s time to turn our tactical talk to 14.04, which will of course be an LTS.

As such, our focus is going to be on performance, refinement, maintainability, technical debt. It would be entirely appropriate for us to make conservative choices in this upcoming vUDS, so please join us in those discussions as we shape 14.04 as a platform for long-term deployments on the PC and the cloud and the server. In particular, we will be providing OpenStack I, J and K on 14.04 for LTS deployments, so we need to make sure we meet the needs of that community for a solid core. On the desktop, 13.10 has benefited greatly from the fact that it has a team just focused on improving quality. We’ll do the same again and more for 14.04. On the mobile front, we’re going to keep racing forward, the platform is too new for an LTS and we’re excited to complete the journey of full convergence. We won’t get there in one cycle but given the pace of improvement of the phone and tablet in the last month I think it’s going to be a fantastic cycle there.

vUDS is where those core decisions are made. We’ve broken new ground on public consultation and discussion: anyone can participate by voice or video, discussions are fast and open-minded, results are communicated in the same week. It’s worth taking time out from work, play or sleep to bring your perspective to bear on what 14.04 needs to deliver, and what commitments you want to make to achieve that.

But… what will we call it? As TS Eliot put it, “the naming of cats is a difficult matter, it isn’t just one of your everyday games…”

It’s no trifling matter to tap the well of tempting tautological taxa in search of just the right mascot for something like 14.04. So many bad options! There’s the “tasty tailless tenrec” (wait for the letters from PETA), the “toxic taipan” (hello again my Aussie mates), and the  ”tantric tarantula” (hold very still…). The “trigamous tayra” (bendy!) and “trippy tegu” just won’t do. We need something a bit more serious than the “twinkle-toed tamarin”, something a bit more transcendent than the the “toric terrapin”, a bit more thematic than the “thermic tamandua” (though I do like the reference to HEAT, something new in the OpenStack world) and a bit cooler than the “thermobaric thornytail”. There are quite a few good options too… Consider the “timely testudo”, that famous winning tortoise, or the “tenacious tapir” who always gets the job done, those might do. And who could resist the “telegenic tamias” other than, perhaps, the developers who have to type “telegenic” every time they make an upload!

Themes therianthropic seem a touch tub-thumping, and tigers Tasman a touch extinct. That tarsier is tactile but titchy too, the toad a bit witchy the the tree shrew, too-too. For a tip-top release nothing tepid will do.

So our titular totem, our tamper-proof taboo, our tranquil memento of mission and dues, our topical target of both cry and hue, the name for our LTS thoughtful and true: I give you, as Seuss would, with hullabaloo, the temperate and thrifty, the talented and tactful but ultimately, and tellingly, trusty tahr.

The tahr navigates Himalayan heights, shaggily suited, sure-footed and steady. A small tourist tahr population lived on my favourite Table Mountain, and while they’ve made way for indigenous animals, for a long time they symbolised hardiness and fearlessness, perched as they were against the cliffs. We’ll do well together. Let’s get cracking!

99 comments:

  1. Wilson says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    Well, for first time I’ll do a little complain about Ubuntu:

    Please, let HUD have a little of your effort, it’s one of the most useful Unity’s features (the one that read your mind and make your wish true) and it was crippled for the second time in two release.
    Six months ago (when it was about Nautilus integration) you said something about a little more focus about mobile and that the desktop will get full effort for the next, now indicators menu are out of HUD and Unity-desktop is one more bit less keyboard friendly; the new alt+F10 navigation is pretty good, it provides the right sameness of look and feel with the touch UI, but it can’t replace HUD for desktop: HUD is too good too replace ;)

    As a former Maemo user and MeeGo user, I can’t wait to see a real linux mobile distribution and as a long term happy Ubuntu user (since 5.10…) I’ve a lot of expectation on Ubuntu Touch

    Thanks for all

    Wilson

  2. hoi koi says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    >13.10 is a very special release for me because I think we are leading the GNU/Linux world into a very important arena, which is mobile personal computing.

    Well you are definetly not leading anyone as Nokia released GNU/Linux based mobile computers N900 (2009) and N9 (2011) and Palm/HP released devices during 2009-2011. During and after that there has been a lot of work on that area by MeeGo/Tizen/mer/Sailfish/Open webOS/webOS-Ports developers. The difference of course that companies like Nokia and Intel heavily contributed in the developement of the GNU/Linux stack very much unlike Canonical.

    >At least we know now who belongs to the Open Source Tea Party

    Canonical? The constant us and them mentality with refering to other open source contributors as “competitors” is very much like how Tea Party works.

    >Mir is relevant for approximately 1% of all developers, just those who think about shell development.

    ..and toolkits, media frameworks, input systems, browsers and other complex applications that do not use toolkits like Qt/GTK+.

    >most notably SystemD, which is hugely invasive and hardly justified.

    It’s “systemd”, have you ever actually looked in to the project? The reasons behind systemd were more than well explained (something you can’t say about Mir). It’s also embraced by the community (Fedora, openSUSE, Mageia, Arch Linux, Sabayon, Tizen, mer, GENIVI Alliance…) which is something you can’t say about Upstart. So maybe it’s very much justified and you are just clueless?

  3. Fernando says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    I’m using ubuntu since 9.04 and it’s time somebody says it, THANKS.

  4. Carlos says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Remember to put it here.

  5. Carlos says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DevelopmentCodeNames

  6. Adam Williamson says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    It’s funny, Mark, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about people who criticise Mir, but if you go and look, mostly people have given up talking about it and just gone to work for the last few months. It’s *you* who keeps necroing the discussion with these counter-productive and unprofessional posts.

    You stay classy, now.

  7. ofluapo says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

    Hi I have been having turkey,thank you for this system ubuntu 12.04 lts super.12:04 I am using now.LTS version now and each time I want to.I’m sorry I’m writing now, google translate.also very nice xubuntu and lubuntu,kubuntu.fakat her zaman LTS,LTS,LTS.THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR SYSTEM UBUNTU

  8. edwin says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Nice, let it be an awesome release :)

  9. TheDude says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    MARK! For the love of god ship the Ubuntu Touch phones with a messenger. Like Whatsapp but opensource, decentralized and with focus on privacy, security! It could finally take a chunk of Skype/Hangouts too, if you make apps for all mobile devices and also the desktop. Make default on desktop installations.

    I really don’t understand how you guys are not doing this, it seems so obvious. The whole community is trying to do the same but none of them have the brand and the popularity to make it happen (easily).

    Just to be sure I’m clear, do not NIH’. Just get an existent protocol and implement a simple interface on top of it. No need to fancy things just to work (at least for now).

  10. Engineer says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    I have no stake in the Mir project, not even sure what it is. I came here as someone who knows a little bit about ubuntu who was interested in learning more, and I’m leaving as someone needlessly offended, and doubtful as to whether I can trust ubuntu.

    So, you’re saying that those others, who don’t like MIR, are like the Tea Party? They oppose out of control spending, fiscal irresponsibility, and generally are antifascists like the american TEA Party?

    So, does that mean that you and Ubuntu are Fascist?

    If you aren’t, you might want to avoid needlessly involving references to political issues, especially in a snotty way like this.

    You tell me you’re a fascist, and I think less of you and ubuntu as a result. If you think characterizing what you’ve just revealed about yourself as “Fascist” is wrong, then you also tell me you’re too stupid to even know what the words you’re using mean. (This is not a word used in insult, it is the literal definition of fascism that the TEA movement was formed to oppose.)

    Think about that next time you want to be snotty… I have no stake in the MIR project, but your ignorant/offensive comment makes me question whether you are a moral or trustworthy person. Think twice.

  11. Chris Carter says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    Upgrading This weekend, don’t let the nay-sayers get you down as Ubuntu is valued as are your efforts to strive forward with the project. Great work and many Thanks

  12. Surio says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    I am surprised at how many more names keep getting pulled out of the hat. I’ll confess, I hadn’t heard of this particular goat’s name until this day :-| ! I sometimes wonder what would happen after we hit letter Zed ;) (we will likely start off from the letter A all over again, yes?)

    The overall communique was interesting to read and I do wish everyone in the ship “All the very best” :)

  13. Chin says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    The tarsier may be titchy, but it’s got big lenses :)

  14. rex says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    A personal thank you to you, Canonical and to everyone, who participated in the development of Ubuntu 13.10. A truly awesome release, indeed.

  15. dee. says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    Very disappointing, Mark. Not the way a leader should behave. Insulting your opposition? Purposefully riling up your followers with rhetoric? That’s just sad.

    You accuse your detractors of being political in their opposition of Mir, and yet the very existence of Mir is political in nature. There is no good technical reason for the existence of Mir, it offers nothing Wayland doesn’t.

    Let me quote Mark Shuttleworth, ca. 2010:

    “we evaluated the cost of building a new display manager, informed by the lessons learned in Wayland. We came to the conclusion that any such effort would only create a hard split in the world which wasn’t worth the cost of having done it. There are issues with Wayland, but they seem to be solvable, we’d rather be part of solving them than chasing a better alternative. ”

    Now it’s suddenly acceptable to create that hard split? What changed?

    And don’t kid yourself. Not every application is willing or capable to use toolkits. Some programs can’t use toolkits and need to talk to the display server directly. For example: games, applications like XBMC, closed source software ported from other platforms. Without Mir, all of these could simply be written for Wayland.

    To top it off, Mir is being developed in a way that makes it hard if not impossible for others to use it. It’s written for the needs of Unity and Ubuntu in mind, and yet, you seem to expect it to become a desktop standard, you seem to expect everyone to be dazzled by your technical superiority (none of which you’ve demonstrated so far) and start using Mir, but how could they do that, when the very purpose of Mir is just to support Unity? Especially when there already is an alternative, that is being developed for everyone. Wayland is made, quite like the Linux kernel, to run anywhere.

    Mir is probably the worst mistake Canonical has made to date. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you start working for the benefit of desktop Linux again, instead of against it, the better for all Linux users, including Ubuntu.

  16. Martin Owens says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    Keep up the good work, see you at the next Tea Party ;-)

  17. Grant Paton-Simpson says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    Keep adding the “big rocks” and keep focusing on user experience. We all need Linux and open source to be successful and innovative in the consumer space. When you succeed, everyone will say they supported the strategy all along and we’ll find that success has many fathers ;-)

  18. Brandon says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    If I understand the wording correctly, I’m curious, at what point did Ubuntu and Gnome become “competitors”? Or did I misunderstand?

  19. Christoph says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Mark, would you mind naming a few other “pieces of the stack” NID’d except systemd? And if systemd “is hugely invasive and hardly justified”, why is there a systemd package that ships almost everything except init(ctl) in Ubuntu?

  20. Ciprian Khlud says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    I want to congratulate you for the advancements in Ubuntu.

    I want to make clear that I’m not directly impacted (as you said I’m in the 99% percent of developers) when Ubuntu will switch to Mir or will keep X or migrate to Wayland.

    Still I do think that is a simplistic view (or maybe a too informed, that was not shown from the top) of people not migrating to Mir is for political reasons. I know this because I was interacting (at least indirectly) with Mono project and there were companies that did not accept Mono and mostly everyone agreed with Java (at least from freedom standpoint), but most applications users would use in a virtual machine on Linux are more likely to be Mono based than XUL or Java based.

    From this perspective I can say that Mir seems to fail at least as PR both at upstream and as downstream (for the 99% developers) because:
    - it was openly criticizing Wayland and at least some statements were false (and a very weak retraction later). This made in my view to appear that Canonical has a political agenda (it may not be the case, but this it how it appeared)
    - Phoronix (a site that popularize many things in Linux world) presented Mir into a “controversy” mode, and some other technical websites. This again appeared like Canonical “did not agree with SystemD, but wants that anyone to use their Mir”
    - as other opensource projects (I’m talking here about Google’s Dart that was very criticized, compared with Asm.JS which was a Mozilla contribution developed in the open), it was implemented in-house and with a tight control (or this is how it appeared), compared with Wayland that it appears to get contributions from more companies, so was a more “open”

    Based on this, from the side, it appears to me that Mir is what Canonical needs for their OS that want to be migrated to phones and tablets, but to do this it did it by making a lot of statements and comments which were a bit negative to “mainstream”. I can agree that Mir can be the best way to implement future display servers, and it may also be the case that Mir will be the fastest thing around, but technical excellence cannot win the hearts (or brains) by itself. It is easy maybe to convince some developers, users may not care, but people that do take decisions, but when developers feel that a company appears aggressive against upstream, makes the support to not be wanted.

    I know that the note of this message is negative, but as I’m an Ubuntu user, and I hope that Mir (and Ubuntu Phones) to exist.

    I hope that Mir to be the best display server and to be popular, because if it is faster than X, I will benefit out of it. As a conclusion I think that the today’s message was a wrong one: you should try to say a positive note for other projects, not to blame politics or other reasons (which may be true), so will be taken as a more friendly Mark and Canonical.

  21. Richard says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    Next all we need is a universal tool for remote access baked into ubuntu. We have phones tablets and pcs running ubuntu but we need an easy RDPeque way of accessing them all! Maybe integrated with ubuntuone??

    ;) Keep up the good work.

    On another note, glad to see gnome 2 look coming back until unity is more customizable.

  22. IndianArt says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    Very good effort Mark. Liked your inspirational piece as well, rallying the troops!

    Wonderful creation team Ubuntu.

    Trusty Tahr is a wonderful name. Wishing you guys success. :)

  23. lutherus says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    Gentoo and only Gentoo

  24. Michael Steenbeek says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    I have seen reviews of Saucy Salamander calling it boring. But it has some small functional improvements, it runs noticably faster and it has fewer bugs than 13.04 (which in turn was faster and less buggy than 12.04). If that is what people call boring then I’m all for more ‘boring’ releases! ;)

  25. Kjetil Kilhavn says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    It would be both polite and fruitful if you could be explicit about who “attack a project [Mir] purely on political grounds”, in your opinion, so that not everyone who has criticised that project thinks you refer to them. Because I assume you want to be seen as a serious business man, not a fool who refuses to accept there can be valid technical arguments against a technological choice.

  26. Winfried Maus says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    I would have named it “tenacious termite”. But I can see why you chose trusty tahr and wish you a lot of success!

  27. Fizzle says: (permalink)
    October 18th, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    >When lots of competitors attack a project on purely political grounds, you have to wonder what THEIR agenda is. At least we know now who belongs to the Open Source Tea Party ;)

    Ironic and hypocritical. Mir’s only reason for existence is lies and politicking, yet you attack everyone else for it. Well, at least you have projection down.

  28. Bassem says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 12:01 am

    Wonderful work, Mark.
    I really like Unity and I think it’s the best desktop environment(I have been using gnome shell, cinnamon and mate). I cann’t wait to try Unity 8 with mir. I appreciate ubuntu team work. Thanks to all of you and keep up the good work.

  29. Lev says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 1:14 am

    Congrats on another great release, looking forward to the LTS!

    Also, I agree with IndianArt, the kudos to all of the teams was inspirational, thank you for your leadership.

    Best,

    Lev

  30. Profesor Yeow says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 1:19 am

    Keep working!! :)

  31. Yawar Quadir Amin says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 2:20 am

    Ah, Mark, you missed the chance to name it the Tenacious Tardigrade :-)

  32. Chris Lees says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 4:23 am

    It’s sad that so many developers in the Linux community have joined the Ubuntu-hate club. Wayland shifts so much hard work to desktop developers who don’t necessarily know what they are doing in implementing a display server, and wont talk to eachother to ensure every desktop has a similar experience in terms of the display server.

    Mir, on the other hand, eases the lot of the desktop environment developer – it’s just crazy that they fight against what will make their job easier.

  33. Florin Gheorghiu says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 5:24 am

    I’m an addicted Linux user from 1999…
    Conclusion (for not spelling too much my bad English):
    I have run almost every distro and I can tell very clear and loud that without Ubuntu, Linux OS would have been just a hobby for power users. But now is Ubuntu(Unity) and is populated with very, very devoted persons to make another digital world, better and better and just not only…

    Sincerely congratulations to Mark and team and others, nice dreamers !

  34. mark says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    @Fizzle

    Mir’s reason for existence is that I see Wayland ending up with the same set of problems that X had – it promises that everyone can get what they want, which just leaves everyone slightly incompatible with everyone else. In addition, I am concerned that the people funding the project have a very specific agenda and no intention of letting Canonical succeed if they can help it. Mir is focused, lean, small. Its existence should not offend anybody. The fact that it’s been turned into a major issue is a measure of just how much is going on behind the scenes.

  35. mark says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    @Kjetil

    Technical commentary and patches are welcome. People who attacked Mir on political grounds know exactly who they are; no need to feel guilty about it if that isn’t you. Methinks they doth protest too much.

  36. mark says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    @Ciprian

    I agree that people may choose to use something other than Mir for reasons other than political ones. But I didn’t say “choose not to use”, I said “attack”. So, when someone says “it would be better if someone had not written this free software”, you might want to think why on earth they would think that you shouldn’t have that option? And if you dig into it you’ll find that they are typically working to ensure that they control a particular piece of the stack, and the existence of an alternative foils that plan.

    Neither you nor I can tell right now which codebase is better. I think it’s healthy that projects stay open minded. When a project says “we will not accept a patch to enable support for Mir” they are saying you should not have the option. When that’s typically a project which goes to great lengths to give its users every option, again, I suggest there is a political motive. It may be dressed up, but at the end of the day it’s groups or companies acting to reduce the level of competition and diversity, which I think is unhealthy, and which I suspect you would also not want to see happen.

  37. mark says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    @Christoph

    One of the ideas in systemd that we think is really bad is to bring lots of disparate pieces of technology into a single process. So lots of formerly-independent pieces of code, which happen to be under the control of folks driving systemd, have been rolled into that codebase. But it’s still possible to build independent packages of the different pieces from that code, which is what we do. So Upstart can still use that functionality, but Upstart itself is cleaner and simpler.

  38. mark says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    GNOME and Ubuntu are not competitors. Red Hat and Canonical are, as in some cases are Canonical and Intel (consider Tizen).

  39. mark says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    @dee

    I think you’ll find that Mir and Wayland live quite happily together in the world. The fact that Mir’s existence has been blown into a huge controversy is what’s interesting; consider carefully why people who generally accuse Canonical of not writing enough free software are so upset that Canonical should write this free software.

  40. mark says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    I think it’s inappropriate to hold a whole country hostage just because you don’t like something that has lots of other supporters. If you think the TEA movement is opposed to fascism you’re in for a big disappointment; the sorts of people who recklessly put the interests of a tiny minority in front of those of a substantial majority are horrible to live under if they ever do gain real control. Good luck!

  41. Claudio says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Mark, congratulations. Saucy Salamander looks amazing, I just would have named it “Shiny Shark” but maybe i can see a shark soon in UBUNTU. I can’t wait to try Unity 8 with MIR. I wish you success.

  42. Henrik says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    @mark, not wanting to maintain something you don’t have an interest in is a very good reason not to accept a patch. Your code, your responsibility.

  43. Ian says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Not to nit-pick, but there’s a small typo in the 8th paragraph. “What closely to see how competitors to …” should be “Watch closely…” (I did try to find an offline way of telling you, but apparently such a feature doesn’t exist.)

    @Engineer, I think he means the purity test that the Tea Party so vapidly applies to others, but not itself. The rest of the comparison could be taken as allegorical… :-o

  44. Peter says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    You are wrong in saying that MIR only affects 1% of developers. The impact on everyone is that the very small number of people with the skills to support graphics drivers now are spread out over X, Wayland and MIR, the quality of drivers for all of them today is going down, the stability of the entire stack is compromised by the inability of people to work together. Early on Ubuntu capitalized on accepted standards leveraging xorg, gnome, debian. The more Ubuntu seeks to define it’s own technologies by forking, rather than influencing, the more fractured the development community becomes.

    I don’t know know who is wrong, I don’t much care about API’s but I see the result. 13.10′s xorg on sandy bridge has graphics hangs every few minutes playing minecraft, and has done so for months. The reporting mechanism never succeeds to actually submit a report, so I suspeclt it is not really visible to canonical. The best I could do was add a note to bug# 1140716, which looks like a wastebin of all manner of problem reports that I have no confidence that anyone will actually investigate. Will xorg in Intel (not exactly esoteric) with an easily reproducible issue actually get addressed in 13.10. My gut says ubuntu guys are working on MIR, x guys on Wayland, and xorg is going to suck forever.

    That is just one example, but graphics drivers are notoriously complicate, and there are many similar bugs for many different drivers. proprietary drivers will not work on MIR, so we eliminate skilled people again.

  45. Peter says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Just to add that I was really hopeful with the work from the Steam guys, that graphics drivers would finally improve to the point of being a non-issue. Sadly that hope has been dashed by the recent fragmentation…

  46. dee. says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    @Mark

    “I think you’ll find that Mir and Wayland live quite happily together in the world. The fact that Mir’s existence has been blown into a huge controversy is what’s interesting; consider carefully why people who generally accuse Canonical of not writing enough free software are so upset that Canonical should write this free software.”

    Well Mark, you’re certainly very good at using lots of words to say nothing at all. Did you learn that at marketing school?

    Seriously though, people have raised the potential problems with Mir many times, yet you refuse to address them in any way, you brush them aside and say “hey, it’ll be fine, no worries”. What happened to “not wanting to create a hard split in the world”? Your words, not mine…

    Again, what about all the games, closed source software ported from other platforms, media players, etc. – all the apps that for one reason or another are unable or unwilling to use toolkits? That need to be able to talk directly to the display server? Those will have to either support both Wayland and Mir (a huge waste of resources, waste of money that many smaller companies can’t afford), or just stick with X and drag down the evolution of desktop Linux. Mir is going to end up making desktop Linux a less attractive target platform for developers.

    You might find it easy to dismiss me as a “Ubuntu-hater”, but to be honest, Ubuntu has a special place in my heart – it was the first distro that seriously got me to using Linux full-time. I will always remember it fondly and wish only success for it. However, with Mir, I firmly believe (and I’m far from the only one) that Canonical is shooting not only the Linux community, but itself as well, in the foot. I’d be sad to see Ubuntu fall to obscurity because of such a stupid, easily avoidable thing.

    And seriously Mark, the way you so easily sling shoddy, fallacious rhetoric – “everyone who disagrees with us just hates us because they want Linux to be hard and only for geeks”… sound familiar? That kind of strawman-argumentation doesn’t do your reputation any good. It might convince some of your die-hard fans, but anyone with a brain is just going to cringe when they read things like that. What happened to taking the high road, being the bigger man? I used to think that all these Ubuntu fans are just misguided with their enthusiasm, and thus resort to poor arguments to defend their distro of choice – but now I see that they are probably just following your lead.

    Mark, I say this with all respect and love, if you really want to be a leader, you have to learn how to lead by example. To lead, you need to earn the respect of others – and you won’t achieve that by slinging mud around.

  47. joejoe says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    sure wish bumtu just die already, what a waste of developer time. could be spent working on linux code that is actually useful and beneficial to the linux community.

  48. edwin says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    @dee you are being too negative… chill :)

  49. Greg K Nicholson says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    The Ubuntu Code of Conduct says “We don’t allow frustration to turn into a personal attack”.

    “When lots of competitors attack a project on purely political grounds, you have to wonder what THEIR agenda is. At least we know now who belongs to the Open Source Tea Party”; and “those same outraged individuals” sound to me like personal attacks against fellow developers.

    Not cool. Fortunately, the CoC also says “We can all make mistakes; when we do, we take responsibility for them. If someone has been harmed or offended, we listen carefully and respectfully, and work to right the wrong”.

    If patches are welcome, how about: “I’m frustrated that a lot of our competitors’ opposition to Mir seems to be for political rather than technical reasons, which I think will harm their users. I understand that historically there’s been only one graphics stack, but I think competition in this area is healthy and not to be feared. I’d like to encourage our competitors to assess Mir purely on its technical merit, in the spirit of co-operation.”

  50. Martin Gräßlin says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    And I want to add something more. If you think there is a secret “anti-Canonical” agenda in my doing, than please explain me why I gave a talk at the German ubucon conference last weekend? So anti-Canonical I cannot be, when I still do that. Do you know how many Canonical employees have been there? none. I was rather disappointed by that fact. I had hoped to see for example Thomas and have a drink (on my side of course non-alcoholic) with him. I at least would have enjoyed that.

  51. Lestibournes says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    I don’t appreciate that reference to the tea party, but I am sick and tired of all the Ubuntu-haters. I’m also sick and tired of Canonical not having a direct point-to-point debate with anyone, so please take Aaron Seigo up on his suggestions and just have a proper, open, on-the-record, direct discussion of all the reasons why you decided against going with Wayland and the differences between Wayland and Mir and all that. Just a be-all-end-all technical discussion thread that covers everything on the topic without shying away from confrontation and without name-calling.

    I’m in favor of Mir. I just want to end the ambiguity and feeling like I’m not getting real answers. If people continue hating on Mir after its all been explained then I will be able to dismiss them as idiots, but until then I keep getting a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that there may be something to what they are saying.

  52. Lestibournes says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    There’s a story of a man who complained to his Rabbi that his house is too small, so the Rabbi told him to add a goat into his house. A week later the Rabbi told him to take the goat out, and suddenly the house seemed so spacious. In Israeli politics it is said that politicians put goats into the budget so that the people’s anger will focus on that spending, then they take it out so it will seem by comparison like the budget is small and responsible.

  53. Samium Gromoff says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Mark, it would be rather helpful, if you’d elaborate on this a bit more — because I’m sure many people would find that a contentious issue:

    “Mir’s reason for existence is that I see Wayland ending up with the same set of problems that X had – it promises that everyone can get what they want, which just leaves everyone slightly incompatible with everyone else.”

    While we’re at it, another separate statement of yours draws (I’d even say grabs) attention:

    “In addition, I am concerned that the people funding Mir Wayland have a very specific agenda and no intention of letting Canonical succeed if they can help it.” (correction mine)

    People are throwing FUD at Canonical. Now, it appears, you throw FUD at Intel? What is this, corporate politics? Why not fight them in the open? Call Intel out on their grip on Wayland, if there is such a thing, as you seem to imply?

  54. Lestibournes says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    @dee
    I was under the impression that games use SDL as an abstraction layer, so they never interact directly with the display server, which means games don’t need to care whether the display server is Mir, Wayland, Xorg, or anything else. I see no reason why the same can’t be true for all other types of applications you mentioned.

  55. Albert says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Many people is forgetting Canonical is a company.

    It’s not about changing the Linux world only. It’s something beyond.

    My feeling is that many of the seen controversies on what’s Canonical doing in Ubuntu’s development would be the same if instead of Debian based the project would have been BSD based. But at the same time it would be much more easy for everyone to understand what’s going on. And easier for Canonical to develop their own model.

    I can be wrong. But these are my 5 cents.

    And by the way. Thanks to you Mark. Thanks a lot.

  56. Iwe Tawded says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    I LOVE YOU MARK! Ubuntu is the BEST distribution for Linux ever. I can’t believe those stupid tea party people don’t like what you’re doing for the open source world. Everyone should follow you as their leader, you obviously have the most insight and best ideas.

  57. FHF says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    Hi Mark.
    I have been using Ubuntu for 3 years now and I must say that Ubuntu is going in right direction!
    I appreciate your effort as leader of this wonderful project.
    And about this post: Well said! But in slightly wrong words. But after all this is your PERSONAL blog and you can write your own point of view. That is free speech so non-ubuntu folks:
    Please stop this flamewar. We have will Mir you will have Wayland, Thanks.

    Mark: Keep up with this wonderful project you are the best leader we can ever have. ;)
    Bests,
    FHF

  58. Jose says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Hello Mark

    I understand that you decided to take a different path than Wayland with Mir, and also understand the Wayland guys here.

    Healthy competition is good for anybody. It makes people to stay alert and improve.

    What I can’t understand is your position of feeding the confrontation. You are devoting energy to go against other open source projects. Hearing you talk about “THEIR agendas” makes you closer to conspiracy theorists, the US government(talking of people and allied governments as “adversaries”) and yes, the Tea Party(*), than you think.

    What is wrong with having a different opinion and just following your intuition?. You are rich because your intuition about the future was probably right in the past.

    You are probably right in this, who knows? But if you continue disrespecting and adding bad emotional tone against different options, you will make integration of those people you are disrespecting impossible in the future, even if you are right. It will become something personal, ego wars, like the Unity issue(**).

    For you(us) to win, we don’t need everybody else to fail.

    You need to be a leader, and remember that there is people on the other side. If you sow confrontation, you will reap confrontation, but multiplied. It is a huge temptation to feed it.

    There are lots of things we could do if we focus our energies in what we do, and not on what other people is doing.

    Now, keep the good work. Bye.

    (*) Tea Party has the right to exist. It has become fashion to ridicule them as expending more than what you have, taxing people to death and giving the money to crony capitalists has become the new normal.

    (**)Most of the people that criticize so hard Unity only tested Unity once, when it was forced down throat on them and was buggy and incomplete. Now they couldn’t care less about the real technical merits of Unity because it has become personal as they remember how bad they felt, the fact of having the computer broken and nobody listening to them.

  59. Samium Gromoff says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    Jose, just wonderful!

  60. Mark says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    As a professional Ubuntu user, I’m not sure why you think Mir is important; it doesn’t solve any problem I have ever had.

    Even if it were important, pushing a new display server technology as part of regular desktop upgrades is unacceptable to me as a user. Ubuntu upgrades are becoming more and more of a hassle, because things top working every six months (and I need the latest versions for the C++ and Fortran compilers).

    At some point, I’m just going to switch to another distro. It’s been a nice half dozen years with Ubuntu, but you are clearly taking it into a different direction from the one I need.

  61. Steffen says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 9:14 pm

    Mark: regarding “open source Tea Party”…
    I mean, honestly, you are right with what you say. But I mean, just leave them. Leave them away. If you explain to them, why MIR is there, what issues you have with Wayland, all this… its like talking to a wall. They don’t get it anyway.

    In their opinion, everything, you do and and everything Canonical does, follows an evil Masterplan which will drive the world into darkness and a kind of Mad Max atmosphere. So what.

    Their Bugtrackers are full and if they really would care about their projects and their users, they wouldn’t have time to care about you, your goals, what you do. But they do. Because that’s all they have. But they don’t get it, how successful projects are driven and managed.

    But all these complaints and all the noise, caused by something you say and do… is it really worth it? Isn’t it much more productive to just leave them digging their sh*t and to just work on your things and while doing that paveing your and Canonicals road to success?

    Just my 2 cents…

  62. Darran Kelinske says: (permalink)
    October 19th, 2013 at 11:26 pm

    Keep up the good work Mark! Thank you!

  63. Greg S says: (permalink)
    October 20th, 2013 at 2:07 am

    You don’t deserve all this negative feed back I apologize that us content people don’t squeak like the rest. The Tea Party comment was probably poorly thought out but I get it and I agree with you I don’t see why Ubuntu can’t develop what it wants. I have confidence in the quality of Canonical’s work and appreciate the extra work they put in for MIR.

    I’d really like to see another video by you explaining the advantages MIR represents for Ubuntu and what separates it from other display servers.

    An appearance in the Linux action show would also be really neat the Hosts there seem to be able to conduct themselves without forcing bias on their viewers.

  64. Jocala says: (permalink)
    October 20th, 2013 at 4:59 am

    Show me Ubuntu Phone running on a mainstream device, oh perhaps the SGS2 :) I’d be on it like white on rice :)

  65. Lesley says: (permalink)
    October 20th, 2013 at 8:59 am

    There are still trusty tahrs in Cape Town! Committed and holding ground no matter what pooh comes our way:)

  66. Munawar says: (permalink)
    October 20th, 2013 at 9:43 am

    Thanks for another great release

  67. cmyster says: (permalink)
    October 20th, 2013 at 10:39 am

    Interesting read.
    I find myself experimenting with Ubuntu every blue moon and I have to say that it has become a very clean and pleasant ‘distro’ to use. The UI is intuitive enough and in my opinion does it right. It is taking users, albeit kicking and screaming, to a point where they work faster and better even if they don’t realize it. Not a bad thing as users can simple switch to some other DE.
    Also, the more development done on MIR the better, as it is set to replace X, which has been around for ages and is working very well. I hope that when MIR will indeed replace X, then it will be stable enough to switch.
    For the moment there are still many other issues with Ubuntu that prevents me from using it, but that’s personal taste.
    – sips a cup of hot Slackware tea…

  68. John Cockroft says: (permalink)
    October 20th, 2013 at 10:48 am

    As with others here Mark, time to say thanks for Canonical’s wonderful distribution. I tend to stick with LTS releases and all my machines have rock stable 12.04 LTS on them. My ageing parents were using Windows XP and tried Windows 7 and hated it. I suggested that they tried Ubuntu 12.04 and although they were sceptical they now love it. It just works.

    Why oh why does the existing forced Microsoft monopoly have to continue in the UK (or USA for that matter) – i.e. being forced to buy a Microsoft OS preloaded on a generic PC? Edubuntu would be a much better bet for schools.

    As for Mir, I do think it is a good idea and Xorg/X-Windows needs to be retired. There must be a way though that Mir and the Wayland could be unified – as with XMir as a wrapper.

    One suggestion – make LDAP/Samba integration much easier on Ubuntu for 14.04 – either to Microsoft’s Active Directory or to OpenLDAP (e.g. Zentyal Server) or Apache LDAP Server. That would make migration to Ubuntu much easier.

  69. Dietmar says: (permalink)
    October 20th, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    I use Ubuntu since end of 2009. I agree with the article 100%.
    I am very curious regarding MIR and cant wait to see things converge. Good Luck !

  70. sekar says: (permalink)
    October 20th, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    Thanks for Ubuntu, mark. Whatever your intentions, there is no doubt canonical has made a big impact on the have of Linux and many lives.

    As a friendly suggestion just stop talking about mir and move on. So much negative energy from everyone involved on what is just another technology bit. You don’t nteed to justify or explain yourself. Its all been said.

  71. glenn says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 12:18 am

    Mark
    Great post and great release. Thanks

  72. Tony says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 12:29 am

    @Peter “I don’t know know who is wrong, I don’t much care about API’s but I see the result. 13.10′s xorg on sandy bridge has graphics hangs every few minutes playing minecraft, and has done so for months.”

    This is the problem of intel developers not using sandy bridge as their test machines.

    “We will move to the new stuff, while ignoring the old ones”.

    This has happened to me twice. It was around ubuntu 10.10 my computer completely gave up on graphics. After 2012, intel developers realized, they needed to fix the incompatibility they had introduced then, and it started to work again. Same thing has happened to sandy bridge computers now. At least, it is perfectly capable of gaming, in windows. Even on Linux, it had no problems around ubuntu 12.04. Since, I stayed with ubuntu 12.04, and only upgraded around 13.04, I don’t know when it happened, but since ubuntu backports graphics drivers (in this case xserver-xorg-video-intel), it now has problems in ubuntu 12.04 and onwards.

    Also, this is not sole problem of ubuntu, because the scenario in non-debian distros (specially Arch) is even worse. At least in ubuntu, it slows down, heats and at worse crashes the application. However, in arch it abruptly turns off the computer (yes this is overheating issue). I don’t know if it is systemd, governer, or something else, but this problem has put me off of using Arch for sometimes (at least when gaming is on mind).

    Yes, the performance in sandy bridge has increased with newer drivers, but what good a computer is, if it keeps on hanging while playing games. This issue, has been raised countless times, and everyone knows about this, but there is no solution yet.

  73. Darrell says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 1:54 am

    As a long-time Ubuntu user, I thank you and your team sincerely for all you do.

    As far as the never-ending Ubuntu-v-everyone-else thing that seems to be happening, all I can say is: there is room for both in this world. I’m glad Ubuntu is pushing the envelope, and I’m also glad that there is another community pushing an alternate vision. We all ultimately benefit from the competition. May the strongest solution win!

  74. Daniel Aleksandersen says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 5:55 am

    Thank you for your continued dedication.

    Ps: the copyright copy at the bottom of your site might need an update.

  75. Witch Lady says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 7:20 am

    I’ve been using Ubuntu since 9.10, almost four years now. I’m planning to use it for years to come. Thank you (to “all that contributed”) for the good work. I like 13.10 and the changes you’ve done in the past years, especially the dash. But, why on Earth, Ubuntu still doesn’t have the RAW photos preview natively (in Nautilus) is beyond me. Smart scopes would be more smart if we could configure them (for example: choose which Amazon site we want to search; gmail configuration) or if some scopes (like music search) wouldn’t depend on installed apps (I prefer Exaile as my music player; scopes are for Clementine or Rhythmbox) or if after writing in the home and clicking on “documents” or “music” in the bottom bar would filter the results for what I wrote (now, it switchs with blank bar), instead of using the “filter the results” and the weather would be location-smarter. I’m in Warsaw (Poland), input “Cracow” – Wikipedia scope shows me Cracow in Poland (Kraków) but the weather shows Cracow somewhere in USA. Illogical! Since when Ubuntu is USA-oriented?

    I’m not gonna run Ubuntu on my mobile yet, as the requirements are too high for it. I hope you’ll be able to lower them a bit so it could work on old smartphones. And generally, I’d like to see the requirements for whole Ubuntu lowered, so no problems to run it on desktop, netbook or smartphone.

    Keep up the good work!

  76. Panos says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    Mark,

    Thank you, your team, your company and all the community for the best desktop/workstation system!

    I am sure the next releases will really make the difference for the next of 99% of people!

  77. Stephan says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 1:46 pm

    Thanks for the great work! I really like Ubuntu and I think it’s part of the job that you get critizied a lot. Like the work of Linus, a strong leader is very important. I’ve switched to arch linux now, because ubuntu didn’t work because the nvidia drivers are the biggest garbage in the world. I am also looking forward to see package managers like nixos.

  78. Engels Peralta says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    I been using since 6.06 and now 12.04 can wait for 14.04 i love ubuntu. oh and another thing when ubuntu touch will be available for samsung s2 skyrocket.

  79. Jef Spaleta says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Mark,

    You should consider removing this blog post. Its generally not good business practice for mainstream commercial entities to use political party affiliation as implied insult. It tends to raise the ire of the members and supporters of that political party. If you have a long term desire to see mainstream adoption inside the US geopolitical borders, you’ll want to avoid alienating customers across the political spectrum, including political conservatives. You don’t have to agree with their politics, but its unwise to use their political identity as an implied insult when discussing other topics. You aren’t going to win strong customer support from progressive and liberals (Hi there, I’m a staunt progressive-liberal) just because you are willing to flippantly cast the political conservative viewpoint and identity as an insult to be used on others. I’m not going to think better of your technology brand because you have implied that you agree with me as to US government political situation.

    Thankfully Ubuntu isn’t a mainstream technology brand in the US yet, so your brand profile doesn’t rise up high enough for your comment to snowball into a business damaging affront. But in anticipation of jumping the chasm and becoming a mainstream technology brand in the US, you should really consider pulling this blog post entirely so its not hanging out there for someone to stumble on in a year. Seriously, if you are going to be making a solid consumer push next year, around the time of the US congressional elections, this is exactly the sort of quip that political operatives would jump on and drag you and the Ubuntu brand into the partisan bar brawl that is going to happen in the couple of weeks ahead of the November elections. And I’d really hate for you to have to deal with that sort of distraction on top of everything else. Its already going to be a hard road ahead getting traction in mobile. Don’t make it harder for yourself.

    -jef

  80. oiaohm says: (permalink)
    October 21st, 2013 at 11:41 pm

    Mark the problem is the us and them. Even with upstart as time progresses its being forced to use systemd logind.

    If Mir cannot get its code upstreamed there are going to be on going problems. Its in fact going to become more of a problem with next X11 release where Xwayland will be up-streamed but Xmir will not be.

    You say toolkits including Mir support is the same as including Windows. There is a problem with this statement. You are supporting X11 with Xmir. So there is no reason for toolkits to support Mir unless there is enough market share to justify it. Members of toolkit makers have not been offered seats in Mir development. Even Windows toolkit developers can get preview version of Windows and voice their worries directly and even block a Windows releases. Closed shop method of that Mir is only for Ubuntu is a big problem.

    Remember toolkit developers also have refused to release for directfb and ywindows. Mark about time you go and read history and see without some alteration to Mir handling its going the same path.

    If you like or not users will still want to use KDE on Ubuntu so wayland support is going to be required on Ubuntu in some form. The problem I have is the only Wayland and the only Mir applications.

    Neither Wayland and Mir provide support at this stage for the others protocol. Of course I know this seams like admitting defeat. Reality you are defeated Mark unless you alter path. You have failed to get KDE or Gnome or XFCE or LDE on side. Unity alone will not cut it. So now you have todo something to create pressure and it takes risk.

    Interesting enough Mir supporting wayland applications not altered gives dominance to Ubuntu due to the fact Mir only application can exist. This is about the only way Mir can apply pressure.

    Unity mostly has been able to be ignored by application and toolkit developers. Exactly why are you thinking Mir would get better treatment.

    You have to remember a lot of toolkit developers are directly involved in wayland.

    Mark you really need to take stock quickly. Mir has lost key battles including having a mesa patch pulled. XMir is going to have to attempt to push upstream after XWayland is merged. I don’t see the odds of XMir getting in as high.

    Some point it is required to call particular battles not winnable. Xmir has to be close to this.

    Mir developers have failed to see why Wayland has a stable protocol instead of just a stable ABI.

    Lets say Mark I wish to chroot run something stable protocol between library versions is required. Why the distribution running the display and the distribution in the chroot running the application may in fact be different.

    Wayland and Systemd are on the path to address one of Linux biggest problems. Working backwards compatibility with old applications Mir in fact by design breaks the means to run 1 version of Mir server and a different version of client libs. Yes ABI compatibility is not enough. This has been a major problem. Application developers want the means to be able to use older versions of the interface libraries where possible.

    The usage of cgroups in systemd is about allowing containment. Containment is required to build backwards compatibility.

  81. Zenobius says: (permalink)
    October 22nd, 2013 at 6:21 am

    Mark.

    “What closely to see how competitors to Canonical torture the English language”

    You do of course mean “Watch”.

  82. William Stone III says: (permalink)
    October 22nd, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Mr Shuttleworth, until yesterday, I had been a faithful Ubuntu user. It has been my OS for some time on all my computers at home and has served me faithfully in server environments.

    It’s true that there are “features” of the operating system that concern me. The data being shared with Scopes, for example, is rather alarming. Consequently, I remove Scopes as well as Zeitgeist and then install Cairo Dock as my first actions apon install. I then boot into Cairo Dock as I find Unity clunky.

    As I say, Ubuntu’s default settings and desktop aren’t to my taste and concern me on a professional level. However, since they’re either removable or disable-able, it doesn’t bother me. It’s not like, say, Internet Explorer: malware just waiting to happen that cannot be removed from the OS.

    (Oh, and did I mention I’m using Midori, also due to privacy concerns, and that it’s the ONLY browser on my 13.10 install?)

    Anyway, as long as I can tailor my desktop and turn off the vendor-supplied-arguably-spyware, I could still live with Ubuntu.

    But now, Mr. Shuttleworth, you’ve really rather pissed me off.

    Look, I’m not a Tea Partier. Not because I particularly disagree with them in terms of their stated goals, but because I find them hypocritical.

    Limited government? I’m all for it. But at their heart, they’re not. Limited government means, for example, no government prohibition on the use of recreational drugs. Good luck finding many Tea Partiers who really want THAT.

    In short, they tend to bitch and moan about government when what they really want is to just be in charge. Been there, done that. In fact, American politics has really become two warring factions with little to no real idealogical differences.

    However, for you to insert the reference to the Tea Party when talking about a frakking graphics display software rather pissed me off.

    See, what you’re saying, Mr. Shuttleworth, is that you don’t like me.

    As I said, I’m not a Tea Partier, however there are some of their stated goals I can get behind. Getting rid of anything like socialized medicine is one such.

    The Tea Partiers weren’t doing this for politics. That’s what the politicians were doing, sure. But the Tea Partiers really wanted to get socialized medicine stopped. Their betrayal by politicians was predictable, but for the Tea Partiers, it wasn’t politics.

    Similarly, Mir has some merit to me, at least on a technical level. I’ve long thought that one of Linux’ deficits was its overly-complex graphics stack. Don’t get me wrong, X is cool inasmuch as I can easily run graphical tools remotely. But in order to make it look pretty, you have to add layer upon layer of additional software.

    This seems inherently inefficient to me. You’ll note that Google didn’t port X to Android: they figured out that the clunky display layers would be detrimental on a touch device.

    In any case, I can see a technical rationale for Mir. I also see where it could be a problem in terms of Linux fragmentation. I assume others see the same thing, and that some of them are more vocal about it than I.

    I don’t see how that in any way has to do with socialized medicine.

    So on two levels, Mr. Shuttleworth, you’re saying you don’t like me: you donn’t like me because I’m not in favor of socialized medicine and because I’m a bit on the fence about Mir.

    I’m now, after a solid seven years, reconsidering my use of Ubuntu as my desktop and server operating systems.

    If you don’t like me Mr. Shuttleworth, fine. There are plenty of distros whose maintainers will welcome me.

  83. anaconda says: (permalink)
    October 22nd, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    hello Mark,
    I think that the biggest problem why ubuntu projects are not supported by linux community is because of its popularity.

    Long time ago Ubuntu stand out and became popular:,
    - but Canonical didn’t contributed back to debian( you were using unstable repo for a long time)
    - didn’t contributed back to linux kernel and to GNOME.

    so when guys from GNOME and kernel saw Ubuntu success they were somehow jealous.
    and I think this is the main reason why they NIH unity, upstart and Mir
    the main contributors to GNOME, kernel, systemd and mesa are the same people (red hat, intel, suse)
    the reason they don’t support ubuntu software projects is because they don’t trust ubuntu code.

    I think that if Mir and upstart would be created by another company, they would have much more success.
    And also from a bsd users point of view both upstart and systemd are horrible
    (also you can add pulseaudio and alsa here), because they are vendor lock-in
    they are not portable to other unix like systems.

    Maybe Canonical should send a cake to Wayland team :), like firefox and IE do.

  84. freedomrun says: (permalink)
    October 22nd, 2013 at 11:35 pm

    Thank you Mark, for everything.

    Just wanted to thank you from 2004. when you brought us freedom based on Open Source and united us in one idea named Ubuntu. At that time Ubuntu took Linux in another dimension and it`s still doing that today.

    The evolving Open Source is freedom of choices and that is the beauty of it.

    Please, never give up .. and

    Thank you Mark, for everything :)

  85. LinuxUser says: (permalink)
    October 23rd, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    I can`t find the word Linux anymore on Pages. Ubuntu is nothing without Linux. It would just be nice if the project did not as if Ubuntu Linux. Honors the work of others.

    Ubuntu is only a distribution like many others with much less financial resources.

  86. MattiK says: (permalink)
    October 23rd, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    I still do not understand this whining about Mir. Now what this there supposed to be wrong?

    I would have licensed it using MIT license. It is good for technology if it is supported by many vendors, like X. However, I believe that there is good reasons to use GPL.

  87. Mike Tallent says: (permalink)
    October 26th, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    14.04 needs JDK8 with javafx. And in my unbiased opinion #objectwheel.
    :) Enjoyed my talk with David thursday and really hope I get the pleasure of meeting you soon.

  88. Christoph says: (permalink)
    November 1st, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    @Mark, systemd does not “bring lots of disparate pieces of technology into a single process”. It’s still a lot of different binaries (let alone processes), otherwise you couldn’t ship most of them in Ubuntu, could you? The old technology is still around. rsyslog or syslog-ng did not cease to exist just because of journald.

    And the new binaries are not “under the control of folks driving systemd” either. It’s still an open project, everybody can contribute if they want. No need for a copyright assignment or to sign a CLA. Is it really about control for you? Seems like you are the one with the political agenda then.

    You should ask yourself: Why do so many other projects follow the systemd path and use their APIs? Why did a whole ecosystem evolve around systemd, but not around upstart? The same goes for almost any other project that Canonical has been driving: libindicator vs. libnotify, unity vs. gnome-shell, mir vs. wayland, … Ubuntu is the most popular Linux Distribution, but all it’s projects are Ubuntu-only. Don’t you think there is something wrong here?

  89. Jan Smite says: (permalink)
    November 2nd, 2013 at 10:49 am

    “Please follow the Ubuntu Code of Conduct – your opinions are welcome but please keep them polite and constructive.”

    The keyword here is CONSTRUCTIVE :P

  90. Hazey says: (permalink)
    November 3rd, 2013 at 7:35 am

    @ Mark – You can delete the above if wanted, I apologize, that link is the reply to this post (‘Thoughts about the Open Source Tea Party’ from Martin Graesslin’s blog) however not the item-by-item technical detail/issues/concerns I meant to point out; it IS linked within that post above which I know is more back-and-forth between you two unfortunately but does pose good questions. In either case the technical issues with Mir & KWin were outlined in ‘Mir in Kubuntu’ which is linked here: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2013/05/mir-in-kubuntu/
    And those are the same concerns as compatibility with every other system and software.

    And again, I am not meaning to take sides – only voicing my point of view as a developer and after reading blog posts all around including between you two (you and Martin) and Martin is correct in most his statements about it being a technical issue, not a political one – however not to say both sides do not also have political agendas of their own, that’s unavoidable but I do estimate after decades in the linux community (development included) that based on the various issues with Mir + Compatibility, it is going to be trouble. I’m sure it will be an amazing system nomatter, quick, cool features, and so on but all I am saying and I believe the community ‘outrage’ is about is simply on the compatibility with say KWin/KDE as well as applications/software in general and then the fragmentation of the community/resources from intel/nvidia/ati’s side which will go with Wayland > Mir, then the question is if they do go with Mir as well (3 total) will the quality decrease even further. Only my two cents, I apologize for two separate postings, if you can combine them or even just use this one.

    All aside I wish Ubuntu nothing but the best, but I fear the worst. I thank you for a very long and happy time of ubuntu usage, but the decisions lately just do not work with me :[

  91. Nancy P. says: (permalink)
    November 4th, 2013 at 7:21 am

    We have to choose Mir so that we can find out what is in it!

  92. Wawan B. Setyawan says: (permalink)
    November 5th, 2013 at 7:19 am

    Ubuntu is great as always.. now its for OpenStack? that would be big great.
    Thanks anyway for those humanity you’ve shared. Regards!!!!

  93. MattiK says: (permalink)
    November 5th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    @Christoph:

    “Ubuntu is the most popular Linux Distribution, but all it’s projects are Ubuntu-only.”

    Why Canonical should do work for anyone else? I have always understood the open source licensing in the way, that anyone can take the sources and use it in own projects. If you want to use Unity or any other component that Canonical has developed, so take the source and do the work that it works in your environment and please contribute back changes and bugfixes (?!)

    I don’t understand in what way it is away from anyone that Canonical is developing technology, and we have more options what we can use.

  94. Mike Tallent says: (permalink)
    November 6th, 2013 at 4:29 am

    It seems to me focus groups need to really prioritize what’s missing inside Ubuntu Touch. I’m trying hard to learn the operating system from a Real World user and so many Gotchas are going to scare away a lot. Flow charts explaining how things are currently working and what’s wrong with them have to be developed.

    A tablet is a Brick if you can’t do basic things like log into facebook, get your mail, read a google docs file, browse the internet, watch videos on youtube.

    Ubuntu Touch fails at some of the very basic things and to get adoption will require real world people really using the OS.

    I hope Ubuntu Touch succeeds.

    :)

  95. standy says: (permalink)
    November 6th, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    @MattiK then you don’t understand what the FOSS is all about.

  96. Cedders says: (permalink)
    November 8th, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Tendentious Teapartier?

    (I’d been hoping for the tapir. Tahr reminds me of Intrepid Ibex. I’m sticking with Lubuntu, agnostic until either Wayland or Mir are CPU-efficient with openbox.)

  97. Luis Cordero says: (permalink)
    November 8th, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    Hola Mark Shuttleworth

    Gracias por Ubuntu

    Saludos

  98. u976415 says: (permalink)
    November 8th, 2013 at 8:37 pm

    The work Canonical is doing with Mir and Unity is great. However, Mark being a former Debian developer, you understand the open software social contract. Using the GPL and LGPL isn’t enough. Canonical still owns the copyright. It can or its successor can dual license, or proprietory license the software in the future. In fact, Canonical’s developer agreement doesn’t guarentee contributed software will remain GPL’ed and only GPL’ed. Donate the Mir and Unity code to the GNU Project and contract with FSF to protect that software and its use conforming to the GPL license.

    The other elephant is even System 76 sells systems that use hardware requiring non-GPL’ed drivers.

    Canonical must demonstrate its commitment to a totally GPL’ed software stack.

  99. mark says: (permalink)
    November 11th, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    @Zenobius fnord ;)