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	<title>Comments on: Ayatana overlay scrollbars: something truly Natty</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615</link>
	<description>Planetary perspectives</description>
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		<title>By: mackellsantos</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-379748</link>
		<dc:creator>mackellsantos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Oct 2011 21:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-379748</guid>
		<description>[...] Mas nesse próximo lançamento o Ubuntu realmente se define como um sistema operacional e não mais como “outra distro Linux”. O Unity é interessante, as novidades do sistema são bem vindas e o sistema deve atrair ainda mais usuários com elas. Nesse beta ainda não estavam presentes mais duas novidades do sistema: a possibilidade de testar aplicativos sem instalar e a barra de rolagem “invísivel”. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mas nesse próximo lançamento o Ubuntu realmente se define como um sistema operacional e não mais como “outra distro Linux”. O Unity é interessante, as novidades do sistema são bem vindas e o sistema deve atrair ainda mais usuários com elas. Nesse beta ainda não estavam presentes mais duas novidades do sistema: a possibilidade de testar aplicativos sem instalar e a barra de rolagem “invísivel”. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Selectively Disable Overlay Scrollbars &#124; Tombuntu</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-373759</link>
		<dc:creator>Selectively Disable Overlay Scrollbars &#124; Tombuntu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 01:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-373759</guid>
		<description>[...] 11.04 introduced overlay scrollbars with a minimal look and scrolling controls that only appear when the mouse is nearby. Some [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 11.04 introduced overlay scrollbars with a minimal look and scrolling controls that only appear when the mouse is nearby. Some [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-370363</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2011 04:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-370363</guid>
		<description>overlay scrollbars are terrible. I have a desktop, not a silly tablet!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>overlay scrollbars are terrible. I have a desktop, not a silly tablet!</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Overlay Scrollbars: Neues Scrollbar-Konzept in Ubuntu Natty 11.04 &#124; Linux und Ich</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-367627</link>
		<dc:creator>Overlay Scrollbars: Neues Scrollbar-Konzept in Ubuntu Natty 11.04 &#124; Linux und Ich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2011 15:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-367627</guid>
		<description>[...] aktuell schon Ubuntu Natty am Laufen hat, der kann sich das Ganze auch selber ansehen. Auf Marks Blog gibt es Informationen zum [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] aktuell schon Ubuntu Natty am Laufen hat, der kann sich das Ganze auch selber ansehen. Auf Marks Blog gibt es Informationen zum [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-364904</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 07:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-364904</guid>
		<description>Hello,
I will say this with huge amount of respect for your dedication and creativity, however I have a huge problem with Ayatan scrollbar. I currently use Ubuntu with Gnome 2.32.

At the minimum, you should give users a choice to select the look-and-feel such as you get with Firefox 6.0, where if there is more text than the window size, the scrollbar is shown ***all the time, and has good ***contrast color so it is highly ***visible.

I am not a game player, I am a programmer. There are three most common things I do on  my computer. One is searching for files. Two is programming within some IDE. Three is trying to find bloody scrollbars. In fact, I estimate I am looking for scrollbars about 200 times per day. Yes I can understand that real estate is limited on the screen. I measured several of my windows and found out that typical width of a window is  150mm, and the height is 100mm. The vertical scrollbar if it were always visible  take 3mm width and 100mm height. Horizontal scrollbar would take 3mm width and 150mm length. So the two scrollbars have area (3*100 + 3*150) and the window area is (150*100)  so the ratio is 750/15,000 = 5%. So by making the scrollbars invisible you saved 5%. 

To put it differently, I have to hunt with my mouse over the edge of the window repeatedly until I can see the invisible scrollbar. To put it yet differently, it is very bad idea to try to save 5% and making the window unusable because I can&#039;t find the bloody scrollbar. 

Again I have great deal of respect for all the Gnome programmers, but please give user an option to see the scrollbar all the time if there is hidden text in the window and make the scrollbar highly visible by providing proper contrast. It should require very little code since persistently visible scrollbars are easier to design. Use the look-and-feel of Firefox 6.0. I am so desperate that I am looking into installing xfce or KDE.
respectfully
-jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,<br />
I will say this with huge amount of respect for your dedication and creativity, however I have a huge problem with Ayatan scrollbar. I currently use Ubuntu with Gnome 2.32.</p>
<p>At the minimum, you should give users a choice to select the look-and-feel such as you get with Firefox 6.0, where if there is more text than the window size, the scrollbar is shown ***all the time, and has good ***contrast color so it is highly ***visible.</p>
<p>I am not a game player, I am a programmer. There are three most common things I do on  my computer. One is searching for files. Two is programming within some IDE. Three is trying to find bloody scrollbars. In fact, I estimate I am looking for scrollbars about 200 times per day. Yes I can understand that real estate is limited on the screen. I measured several of my windows and found out that typical width of a window is  150mm, and the height is 100mm. The vertical scrollbar if it were always visible  take 3mm width and 100mm height. Horizontal scrollbar would take 3mm width and 150mm length. So the two scrollbars have area (3*100 + 3*150) and the window area is (150*100)  so the ratio is 750/15,000 = 5%. So by making the scrollbars invisible you saved 5%. </p>
<p>To put it differently, I have to hunt with my mouse over the edge of the window repeatedly until I can see the invisible scrollbar. To put it yet differently, it is very bad idea to try to save 5% and making the window unusable because I can&#8217;t find the bloody scrollbar. </p>
<p>Again I have great deal of respect for all the Gnome programmers, but please give user an option to see the scrollbar all the time if there is hidden text in the window and make the scrollbar highly visible by providing proper contrast. It should require very little code since persistently visible scrollbars are easier to design. Use the look-and-feel of Firefox 6.0. I am so desperate that I am looking into installing xfce or KDE.<br />
respectfully<br />
-jim</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nattys Scrollbar - Hartholz</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-364667</link>
		<dc:creator>Nattys Scrollbar - Hartholz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:26:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-364667</guid>
		<description>[...] April versucht, mit mit dem &#8220;Overlay Scrollbar&#8221; anzufreunden, den Mark Shuttleworth unheimlich toll findet. Er hat ja insofern Recht, dass die Scrollbars auf so einem Bildschirm eine Menge Platz fressen. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] April versucht, mit mit dem &#8220;Overlay Scrollbar&#8221; anzufreunden, den Mark Shuttleworth unheimlich toll findet. Er hat ja insofern Recht, dass die Scrollbars auf so einem Bildschirm eine Menge Platz fressen. [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: physopty</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-360722</link>
		<dc:creator>physopty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2011 07:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-360722</guid>
		<description>I use a trackpoint on a notebook which is faster and more precise than a touchpad. Even a touchscreen - while nice for certain surfing and navigation tasks - will never replace a well-engineered trackpoint. I even prefer to deactivate touchpads since they interfere with natural hand rest position.

Regarding the overlay scrollbars, it is most annoying that the overlay appears only when getting close to the indicating vertical bar. So it requires to navigate the pointer to that tiny vertical bar, rather than simply move to the right border of the text area. This is difficult and slows down work a lot.

Devices with touchscreen are fashionable now, and touchscreens might become standard also for notebooks used to work rather than just play and surf around.

So I am pretty much against this new fashion of overlay scrollbars. It should at least be easy to switch them off, but better be discarded as it is one more step on the way to unfunctional notebooks (just as the move from 4:3 to widescreen was - also driven by movie consumers but not professional users).

However, it may be good with a touchsreen and well-engineered trackpoint combination but without a touchpad. Or allow the touchpad to operate as large 2D scroll-control (and nothing else).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use a trackpoint on a notebook which is faster and more precise than a touchpad. Even a touchscreen &#8211; while nice for certain surfing and navigation tasks &#8211; will never replace a well-engineered trackpoint. I even prefer to deactivate touchpads since they interfere with natural hand rest position.</p>
<p>Regarding the overlay scrollbars, it is most annoying that the overlay appears only when getting close to the indicating vertical bar. So it requires to navigate the pointer to that tiny vertical bar, rather than simply move to the right border of the text area. This is difficult and slows down work a lot.</p>
<p>Devices with touchscreen are fashionable now, and touchscreens might become standard also for notebooks used to work rather than just play and surf around.</p>
<p>So I am pretty much against this new fashion of overlay scrollbars. It should at least be easy to switch them off, but better be discarded as it is one more step on the way to unfunctional notebooks (just as the move from 4:3 to widescreen was &#8211; also driven by movie consumers but not professional users).</p>
<p>However, it may be good with a touchsreen and well-engineered trackpoint combination but without a touchpad. Or allow the touchpad to operate as large 2D scroll-control (and nothing else).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Damon</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-357124</link>
		<dc:creator>Damon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2011 23:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-357124</guid>
		<description>Totally hate unity and the badness transfers to Xfce4.  I use a laptop, not a damn tablet.  Give me back my scroll bars.  Did I say I hate Unity, I am totally livid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally hate unity and the badness transfers to Xfce4.  I use a laptop, not a damn tablet.  Give me back my scroll bars.  Did I say I hate Unity, I am totally livid.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Comment revenir aux scrollbars classiques sur Ubuntu 11.04 Natty Narwhal &#124; LostInBrittany - Le blog d&#039;Horacio Gonzalez</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-353230</link>
		<dc:creator>Comment revenir aux scrollbars classiques sur Ubuntu 11.04 Natty Narwhal &#124; LostInBrittany - Le blog d&#039;Horacio Gonzalez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2011 10:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-353230</guid>
		<description>[...] revient donc vers le bon vieux shell GNOME, à une exception près : les overlay scrollbars, les nouvelles barres de défilement style smartphones introduites avec Unity pour gagner de la [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] revient donc vers le bon vieux shell GNOME, à une exception près : les overlay scrollbars, les nouvelles barres de défilement style smartphones introduites avec Unity pour gagner de la [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pekka</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/615/comment-page-3#comment-352924</link>
		<dc:creator>Pekka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 13:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/?p=615#comment-352924</guid>
		<description>How this eye-candy is supposed to work with touch screen? These overlay scrollbars require pixel-perfect clicks and drags. I end up mostly doing drag and drop instead of scrolling.

If you want to ape Andrdoid or IOS, please do it properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How this eye-candy is supposed to work with touch screen? These overlay scrollbars require pixel-perfect clicks and drags. I end up mostly doing drag and drop instead of scrolling.</p>
<p>If you want to ape Andrdoid or IOS, please do it properly.</p>
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