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	<title>Comments on: #9: Pervasive support</title>
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	<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69</link>
	<description>Planetary perspectives</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: 451 CAOS Theory &#187; 451 CAOS Links - 2006.11.23</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-293140</link>
		<dc:creator>451 CAOS Theory &#187; 451 CAOS Links - 2006.11.23</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-293140</guid>
		<description>[...] Pervasive support, here be dragons, Mark Shuttleworth (Blog) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pervasive support, here be dragons, Mark Shuttleworth (Blog) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mighty Linuxz &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Shuttleworth: Linux needs pervasive support</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-189639</link>
		<dc:creator>Mighty Linuxz &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Shuttleworth: Linux needs pervasive support</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-189639</guid>
		<description>[...] read more &#124; digg story [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] read more | digg story [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shuttleworth from Ubuntu Gives Talk at CERN at JStorage</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-53482</link>
		<dc:creator>Shuttleworth from Ubuntu Gives Talk at CERN at JStorage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 22:28:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-53482</guid>
		<description>[...] #13 Pretty is a feature #12 Consistent Packaging #11 Simplified, rationalised licensing #10 Presence #9 Pervasive support #8 Govoritye po Russki? #007 Great gadgets #6 Sensory Immersion #5 Real real-time collaboration #4 Plan, execute, DELIVER #3 The Extra dimension #2 Granny&#8217;s new camera #1 Keeping it FREE [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] #13 Pretty is a feature #12 Consistent Packaging #11 Simplified, rationalised licensing #10 Presence #9 Pervasive support #8 Govoritye po Russki? #007 Great gadgets #6 Sensory Immersion #5 Real real-time collaboration #4 Plan, execute, DELIVER #3 The Extra dimension #2 Granny&#8217;s new camera #1 Keeping it FREE [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Hartman &#187; Mark Shuttleworth puts me in my place</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-21959</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Hartman &#187; Mark Shuttleworth puts me in my place</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-21959</guid>
		<description>[...] So this Ubuntu PowerPC issue has been bugging me a lot, so much so that I left the following comment on Mark Shuttleworth&#8217;s blog site this morning. Mark the problem I am having at the moment is the whole ethics behind Ubuntu and what it actually does support. The concept or idea you came up with initially for Ubuntu was to provide a free desktop for all users in the world and make computing and technology more accessible to the people. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So this Ubuntu PowerPC issue has been bugging me a lot, so much so that I left the following comment on Mark Shuttleworth&#8217;s blog site this morning. Mark the problem I am having at the moment is the whole ethics behind Ubuntu and what it actually does support. The concept or idea you came up with initially for Ubuntu was to provide a free desktop for all users in the world and make computing and technology more accessible to the people. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: justin hartman &#187; Blog Archive &#187; mark shuttleworth puts me in my place</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-21593</link>
		<dc:creator>justin hartman &#187; Blog Archive &#187; mark shuttleworth puts me in my place</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 01:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-21593</guid>
		<description>[...] So this Ubuntu PowerPC issue has been bugging me a lot, so much so that I left the following comment on Mark Shuttleworth&#8217;s blog site this morning. Mark the problem I am having at the moment is the whole ethics behind Ubuntu and what it actually does support. The concept or idea you came up with initially for Ubuntu was to provide a free desktop for all users in the world and make computing and technology more accessible to the people. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So this Ubuntu PowerPC issue has been bugging me a lot, so much so that I left the following comment on Mark Shuttleworth&#8217;s blog site this morning. Mark the problem I am having at the moment is the whole ethics behind Ubuntu and what it actually does support. The concept or idea you came up with initially for Ubuntu was to provide a free desktop for all users in the world and make computing and technology more accessible to the people. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Hartman</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-18304</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Hartman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-18304</guid>
		<description>Mark the problem I am having at the moment is the whole ethics behind Ubuntu and what it actually does support. The concept or idea you came up with initially for Ubuntu was to provide a free desktop for all users in the world and make computing and technology more accessible to the people.

A recent decision however by the dev team at Canonical to drop PPC as a supported distribution concerns me. It concerns me in that it would appear there is no long term revenue in supporting PPC as a technology and it has seriously made me wonder just how true the idealism of Ubuntu really is.

I myself run Ubuntu Edgy on two PCs and my iBook G4 but to know that Ubuntu for PPC will ultimately be turned over to the community to support is a growing concern for me. My initial reaction was to move over to Debian but in chatting on the forum I have decided to, where possible, get involved in the PPC community because clearly there is a market and one that needs supporting.

While I realise that PPC doesn't provide much commercial value for Ubuntu does this then not go against everything that Ubuntu is supposed to be in providing greater accessibility to the world? I'm curious to know your thoughts because I am certainly damaged in my perception by this recent decision.

&lt;strong&gt;Response from Mark:&lt;/strong&gt;

Justin

It's difficult to make a philanthropic case for PPC over other architectures. Most people with a PPC desktop or laptop have multiple devices and can afford either to purchase an OS, or to contribute to a free OS like Ubuntu. We see relatively little community contribution, rapidly declining installs (if you read the spec, the details are there). So would it be better to spend three people making the x86 desktop better, or keeping the PPC desktop alive?

At this stage, I think the better philanthropic argument is in favour of improving the desktop of 98% of our users. If you are willing to become one of the community members that it will take to keep PPC officially-supported, then please make your voice heard in the distro mailing lists and channels, sign up, contribute time, make it happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark the problem I am having at the moment is the whole ethics behind Ubuntu and what it actually does support. The concept or idea you came up with initially for Ubuntu was to provide a free desktop for all users in the world and make computing and technology more accessible to the people.</p>
<p>A recent decision however by the dev team at Canonical to drop PPC as a supported distribution concerns me. It concerns me in that it would appear there is no long term revenue in supporting PPC as a technology and it has seriously made me wonder just how true the idealism of Ubuntu really is.</p>
<p>I myself run Ubuntu Edgy on two PCs and my iBook G4 but to know that Ubuntu for PPC will ultimately be turned over to the community to support is a growing concern for me. My initial reaction was to move over to Debian but in chatting on the forum I have decided to, where possible, get involved in the PPC community because clearly there is a market and one that needs supporting.</p>
<p>While I realise that PPC doesn&#8217;t provide much commercial value for Ubuntu does this then not go against everything that Ubuntu is supposed to be in providing greater accessibility to the world? I&#8217;m curious to know your thoughts because I am certainly damaged in my perception by this recent decision.</p>
<p><strong>Response from Mark:</strong></p>
<p>Justin</p>
<p>It&#8217;s difficult to make a philanthropic case for PPC over other architectures. Most people with a PPC desktop or laptop have multiple devices and can afford either to purchase an OS, or to contribute to a free OS like Ubuntu. We see relatively little community contribution, rapidly declining installs (if you read the spec, the details are there). So would it be better to spend three people making the x86 desktop better, or keeping the PPC desktop alive?</p>
<p>At this stage, I think the better philanthropic argument is in favour of improving the desktop of 98% of our users. If you are willing to become one of the community members that it will take to keep PPC officially-supported, then please make your voice heard in the distro mailing lists and channels, sign up, contribute time, make it happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Otto Kekäläinen</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-16710</link>
		<dc:creator>Otto Kekäläinen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 08:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-16710</guid>
		<description>For those who live in Finland, there is the Linux Support Finland at http://www.linux-tuki.fi/ which provides general support for all Linux-related issues. 

I'm sure this consept could be adapted to any country trough some kind fo franchising agreement or similar. Of course, it might need some more funding.. you don't happen to know somebody with extra money to invest? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those who live in Finland, there is the Linux Support Finland at <a href="http://www.linux-tuki.fi/" rel="nofollow">http://www.linux-tuki.fi/</a> which provides general support for all Linux-related issues. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure this consept could be adapted to any country trough some kind fo franchising agreement or similar. Of course, it might need some more funding.. you don&#8217;t happen to know somebody with extra money to invest? <img src='http://www.markshuttleworth.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Neale Pickett</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-16383</link>
		<dc:creator>Neale Pickett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-16383</guid>
		<description>I thought you were going to introduce stickers too.  If someone made a "Linux Supported here" sticker, and gave it away for free (like System76 does with their Ubuntu stickers), I have a feeling geeks around the world would slap them up in their places of business.

I remember going into a print shop in Seattle once with a PostScript file that I'd written for our wedding invitation.  Turns out their printers didn't have the font I'd specified, but the dude behind the counter had a Tux T-shirt on, so I asked him to just edit the file and change the font.  No prob.  That guy might have been able to convince management to put a sticker on the door.  The guy working at the coffee shop with free wireless might be able to, also.  Geeks *want* to advertise Linux, you just have to give them a consistent way to do it and suddenly people are seeing "Linux" stickers all over the place.

Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought you were going to introduce stickers too.  If someone made a &#8220;Linux Supported here&#8221; sticker, and gave it away for free (like System76 does with their Ubuntu stickers), I have a feeling geeks around the world would slap them up in their places of business.</p>
<p>I remember going into a print shop in Seattle once with a PostScript file that I&#8217;d written for our wedding invitation.  Turns out their printers didn&#8217;t have the font I&#8217;d specified, but the dude behind the counter had a Tux T-shirt on, so I asked him to just edit the file and change the font.  No prob.  That guy might have been able to convince management to put a sticker on the door.  The guy working at the coffee shop with free wireless might be able to, also.  Geeks *want* to advertise Linux, you just have to give them a consistent way to do it and suddenly people are seeing &#8220;Linux&#8221; stickers all over the place.</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Tobias Cloete</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-16235</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobias Cloete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-16235</guid>
		<description>Following Peter's statement: November 26th, 2006 at 5:44 pm,
I must say that I've come across a few companies, eg: iBurst, that say 'Linux supported' but they really mean 'Our hardware is Linux Compatible', because, you can phone them, email them or visit them directly and ask them 'I need to setup your iBurst modem on Linux, can you help me?' and they reply 'We don't support Linux', hmmm, its quite easy to setup the usb modem under Linux (the one with the RJ45 'lan' port), just use 'pppoeconfig' so, they don't have staff to help people to set this up (or a webpage even) and its sad, cause it will be a create investment for them as I've read numerous forums from people struggling with this.

The same is said for other companies that state 'Linux Supported' and they turn their customers down, especially end users who tries to lean Linux, so the end user, just gives up and stays on Microsoft Windows.

So, really, if I where a hardware vendor and know my product is Linux compatible, I'd rather state 'Linux Compatible' than 'Linux supported' or do some research and post a page on the website with some instructions or link it to a forum that talks about the hardware or Linux as a topic.

Regards,
Tobias Cloete
The Alpha Centauri Network
info@centauri.co.za &#124; www.centauri.co.za</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following Peter&#8217;s statement: November 26th, 2006 at 5:44 pm,<br />
I must say that I&#8217;ve come across a few companies, eg: iBurst, that say &#8216;Linux supported&#8217; but they really mean &#8216;Our hardware is Linux Compatible&#8217;, because, you can phone them, email them or visit them directly and ask them &#8216;I need to setup your iBurst modem on Linux, can you help me?&#8217; and they reply &#8216;We don&#8217;t support Linux&#8217;, hmmm, its quite easy to setup the usb modem under Linux (the one with the RJ45 &#8216;lan&#8217; port), just use &#8216;pppoeconfig&#8217; so, they don&#8217;t have staff to help people to set this up (or a webpage even) and its sad, cause it will be a create investment for them as I&#8217;ve read numerous forums from people struggling with this.</p>
<p>The same is said for other companies that state &#8216;Linux Supported&#8217; and they turn their customers down, especially end users who tries to lean Linux, so the end user, just gives up and stays on Microsoft Windows.</p>
<p>So, really, if I where a hardware vendor and know my product is Linux compatible, I&#8217;d rather state &#8216;Linux Compatible&#8217; than &#8216;Linux supported&#8217; or do some research and post a page on the website with some instructions or link it to a forum that talks about the hardware or Linux as a topic.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Tobias Cloete<br />
The Alpha Centauri Network<br />
<a href="mailto:info@centauri.co.za">info@centauri.co.za</a> | <a href="http://www.centauri.co.za" rel="nofollow">http://www.centauri.co.za</a></p>
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		<title>By: bill kagai</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-16141</link>
		<dc:creator>bill kagai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 08:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/69#comment-16141</guid>
		<description>there is probably a misnomer about the term 'support' as applied in IT. our experience shows that support might not necessarily mean 'call-in' but a stong distribution network and training. 

go ahead and ask those who ask for support, the kind of 'support' they wish to have. it will most of the times centralise on where to get ready upgrades, how local the penetration of resellers is and certification they can put on their cv's. certification releated to brand is more 'sellable' than open certification (lpi??) based on our experience. thats where we should head to demistify 'support'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there is probably a misnomer about the term &#8217;support&#8217; as applied in IT. our experience shows that support might not necessarily mean &#8216;call-in&#8217; but a stong distribution network and training. </p>
<p>go ahead and ask those who ask for support, the kind of &#8217;support&#8217; they wish to have. it will most of the times centralise on where to get ready upgrades, how local the penetration of resellers is and certification they can put on their cv&#8217;s. certification releated to brand is more &#8217;sellable&#8217; than open certification (lpi??) based on our experience. thats where we should head to demistify &#8217;support&#8217;.</p>
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