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	<title>Comments on: #5: Real real-time collaboration</title>
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	<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73</link>
	<description>Planetary perspectives</description>
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		<title>By: Olo</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-141621</link>
		<dc:creator>Olo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Aug 2007 18:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-141621</guid>
		<description>I can see that some people (e.g. suggesting that O3Spaces has the features) aren&#039;t quite grasping the concept.

For those, this Wikipedia article should make it more clear: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_real-time_editor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see that some people (e.g. suggesting that O3Spaces has the features) aren&#8217;t quite grasping the concept.</p>
<p>For those, this Wikipedia article should make it more clear: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_real-time_editor" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaborative_real-time_editor</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dustin Harriman</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-138959</link>
		<dc:creator>Dustin Harriman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-138959</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe nobody has mentioned &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alfresco.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Alfresco&lt;/a&gt;.  There is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfresco_%28software%29&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;straight-up explanation of it at Wikipedia&lt;/a&gt; also.

Alfresco is very &quot;industrial strength&quot;, but it does everything asked for here (plus a whole bunch of other stuff).  They have a commercially supported version, and a GPL&#039;ed &quot;community version&quot;, which has all the same functionality as the commercially-supported version.  A key strength is that it has CIFS/SMB and WebDAV access.  This lets you easily copy documents in and out of the Alfresco, with no need for any special &quot;thin client&quot; (in both Linux and Windows clients).  You can even &quot;map a drive letter&quot; to the Alfresco server in Windows.

It has lots of Open Source technologies under the hood, check out their &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alfresco.com/products/ecm/specifications/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;technical specs&quot;&lt;/a&gt;

It is probably overly complex for most small groups&#039; needs: it does all kinds of fancy workflow management, enforcing of fine-grained permissions, etc.  It&#039;s very &quot;all-singing, all-dancing&quot;.  Their target market is large enterprises.

I too hope someday there emerges a sort of &quot;Alfresco-Lite&quot; that just does ODF document collaboration in a wiki-like fashion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe nobody has mentioned <a href="http://www.alfresco.com/" rel="nofollow">Alfresco</a>.  There is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfresco_%28software%29" rel="nofollow">straight-up explanation of it at Wikipedia</a> also.</p>
<p>Alfresco is very &#8220;industrial strength&#8221;, but it does everything asked for here (plus a whole bunch of other stuff).  They have a commercially supported version, and a GPL&#8217;ed &#8220;community version&#8221;, which has all the same functionality as the commercially-supported version.  A key strength is that it has CIFS/SMB and WebDAV access.  This lets you easily copy documents in and out of the Alfresco, with no need for any special &#8220;thin client&#8221; (in both Linux and Windows clients).  You can even &#8220;map a drive letter&#8221; to the Alfresco server in Windows.</p>
<p>It has lots of Open Source technologies under the hood, check out their <a href="http://www.alfresco.com/products/ecm/specifications/" rel="nofollow">&#8220;technical specs&#8221;</a></p>
<p>It is probably overly complex for most small groups&#8217; needs: it does all kinds of fancy workflow management, enforcing of fine-grained permissions, etc.  It&#8217;s very &#8220;all-singing, all-dancing&#8221;.  Their target market is large enterprises.</p>
<p>I too hope someday there emerges a sort of &#8220;Alfresco-Lite&#8221; that just does ODF document collaboration in a wiki-like fashion.</p>
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		<title>By: Thorsten Wilms</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-40413</link>
		<dc:creator>Thorsten Wilms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 11:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-40413</guid>
		<description>I think (realtime) collaboration shouldn&#039;t be tackled application by application. Instead there should be a framework to make it a feature of the system (ideally on a layer below desktop environments). That&#039;s the only way to make it widely available and consistent.

For transport, both p2p and client/server should be possible. I guess each participating application would need to understand the concept of Edits for the pieces of information that are exchanged as fast as possible. So the transport layer sends/receives Edits as opaque elements and the apps have to make sense of them.

Edits should be viewable in a log format like IRC chat. In collaborative editing, the same flow from synchronous to asynchronous should be expected.

There needs to be versioning, branching, merging and annotations. Edits should be tracked with information Who did it When.

Users should be able to &#039;share&#039; (make available, expose) on the version level (private/public versions ...)

There should be a central &#039;Person&#039; or Contact type of object to bundle address information, to represent state (availability) and for associating Edits/documents/activities.

[Mark: I touched alot of this in my &quot;Rethinking Desktop Computing&quot; document, send to Ms Newman]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think (realtime) collaboration shouldn&#8217;t be tackled application by application. Instead there should be a framework to make it a feature of the system (ideally on a layer below desktop environments). That&#8217;s the only way to make it widely available and consistent.</p>
<p>For transport, both p2p and client/server should be possible. I guess each participating application would need to understand the concept of Edits for the pieces of information that are exchanged as fast as possible. So the transport layer sends/receives Edits as opaque elements and the apps have to make sense of them.</p>
<p>Edits should be viewable in a log format like IRC chat. In collaborative editing, the same flow from synchronous to asynchronous should be expected.</p>
<p>There needs to be versioning, branching, merging and annotations. Edits should be tracked with information Who did it When.</p>
<p>Users should be able to &#8216;share&#8217; (make available, expose) on the version level (private/public versions &#8230;)</p>
<p>There should be a central &#8216;Person&#8217; or Contact type of object to bundle address information, to represent state (availability) and for associating Edits/documents/activities.</p>
<p>[Mark: I touched alot of this in my "Rethinking Desktop Computing" document, send to Ms Newman]</p>
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		<title>By: Mo</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-23440</link>
		<dc:creator>Mo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-23440</guid>
		<description>I remember the online music jamming community Res Rocket, there was a collaborative music sequencer program that had virtual studios where MIDI instrument owners layed down their lines and could edit others; it was way ahead of it&#039;s time and a great success &#039;til it folded. It&#039;d be great if that sort of thing was part of the Ubuntu Multimedia/Music distro. With current advances this could be superior to Res Rocket.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember the online music jamming community Res Rocket, there was a collaborative music sequencer program that had virtual studios where MIDI instrument owners layed down their lines and could edit others; it was way ahead of it&#8217;s time and a great success &#8217;til it folded. It&#8217;d be great if that sort of thing was part of the Ubuntu Multimedia/Music distro. With current advances this could be superior to Res Rocket.</p>
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		<title>By: Meriblog: Meri Williams&#8217; Weblog &#187; links for 2006-12-24</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-22957</link>
		<dc:creator>Meriblog: Meri Williams&#8217; Weblog &#187; links for 2006-12-24</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Dec 2006 23:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-22957</guid>
		<description>[...] Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » #5: Real real-time collaboration &#8220;See - people who work with word processors and spreadsheets have rights too! And they could benefit dramatically from much better collaboration.&#8221; Mark nails it again - a great challenge for OSS to attack (tags: community opensource markshuttleworth opensourcesoftware linux ubuntu collaboration) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mark Shuttleworth » Blog Archive » #5: Real real-time collaboration &#8220;See &#8211; people who work with word processors and spreadsheets have rights too! And they could benefit dramatically from much better collaboration.&#8221; Mark nails it again &#8211; a great challenge for OSS to attack (tags: community opensource markshuttleworth opensourcesoftware linux ubuntu collaboration) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike&#8217;s Thoughts &#187; Linux on the Desktop - Different Ideas and Theorem</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-22731</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike&#8217;s Thoughts &#187; Linux on the Desktop - Different Ideas and Theorem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Dec 2006 03:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-22731</guid>
		<description>[...] As you all probably know by reading my puny blog, I link to Mark Shuttleworth&#8217;s blog.&#160; Mark has been running this interesting commentary on making open source software more prevelant on the desktop.&#160; I&#8217;ve read over his posts with a great degree of interest especially this one.&#160;&#160;If you remember awhile ago,&#160; Asa Dotzler published on his blog some reasons why Linux was not moving closer to the desktop.&#160; Compare the two sets of ideas there and see what Mark is saying regarding the tools, the approaches, the validation and the reasons why Asa says that it was not ready in 2005.&#160; &#160;I&#8217;d like to see Mark address the areas that Asa listed in 2005 and see his take on where Ubuntu Linux has brought us in the original areas and how his primary areas of making open source more prevalent and ubiquitious address the issues or at least dent them in that Asa discussed.&#160; But the few reasons in my conversation were more at the street level and perhaps if you read Ian Murdock&#8217;s blog of late, you&#8217;ll see another set of reasons regarding package management and installation of software.&#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] As you all probably know by reading my puny blog, I link to Mark Shuttleworth&rsquo;s blog.&nbsp; Mark has been running this interesting commentary on making open source software more prevelant on the desktop.&nbsp; I&rsquo;ve read over his posts with a great degree of interest especially this one.&nbsp;&nbsp;If you remember awhile ago,&nbsp; Asa Dotzler published on his blog some reasons why Linux was not moving closer to the desktop.&nbsp; Compare the two sets of ideas there and see what Mark is saying regarding the tools, the approaches, the validation and the reasons why Asa says that it was not ready in 2005.&nbsp; &nbsp;I&rsquo;d like to see Mark address the areas that Asa listed in 2005 and see his take on where Ubuntu Linux has brought us in the original areas and how his primary areas of making open source more prevalent and ubiquitious address the issues or at least dent them in that Asa discussed.&nbsp; But the few reasons in my conversation were more at the street level and perhaps if you read Ian Murdock&rsquo;s blog of late, you&rsquo;ll see another set of reasons regarding package management and installation of software.&nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: laserjock.us :: REVU Sprint Success</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-22629</link>
		<dc:creator>laserjock.us :: REVU Sprint Success</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Dec 2006 18:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-22629</guid>
		<description>[...] The REVU Sprint was a big success for us and the community. Giving the Ubuntu community a chance to contribute to their OS is one of the biggest strengths of our distro. One of the keys to generating contributions is quick feedback and acknowledgment of work done by contributors. As Mark has blogged recently, collaboration is a key element of free software and we are utilizing IRC, REVU, and in the future bzr/Launchpad to make collaborative contribution of software to Ubuntu relatively easy, timely, and fun. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The REVU Sprint was a big success for us and the community. Giving the Ubuntu community a chance to contribute to their OS is one of the biggest strengths of our distro. One of the keys to generating contributions is quick feedback and acknowledgment of work done by contributors. As Mark has blogged recently, collaboration is a key element of free software and we are utilizing IRC, REVU, and in the future bzr/Launchpad to make collaborative contribution of software to Ubuntu relatively easy, timely, and fun. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Hadfield</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-22046</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Hadfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-22046</guid>
		<description>Collaboration is key. In fact, we came up with an interesting idea the other day. Have been playing with Ubuntu for quite a while now - particularly impressed with stability and ability to run of low spec machines. In SA, I&#039;m sure people (well, I hope people) are aware that the medical fraternity is under huge IT pressure. They just don&#039;t have the infrastructure, machines, support or software needed to store patient data, get lab results across distances and collaborate on diagnoses and management methods. Already thinking Wiki?  Well, the seed of the idea is to get gov sponsorship or other to roll out an Ubuntu network to all hospitals. Stable. Locked down. Network perhaps over dialup.  Hospitals prob get MS licenses for free - but the machines keep crashing. Baragwanath hospital for instance, (largest hospital in the world, in Joburg) - has FIVE working terminals. That&#039;s ridiculous.  Wondering what people think?  And if there&#039;s any takeup to the idea? Link to the article is on my name above...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Collaboration is key. In fact, we came up with an interesting idea the other day. Have been playing with Ubuntu for quite a while now &#8211; particularly impressed with stability and ability to run of low spec machines. In SA, I&#8217;m sure people (well, I hope people) are aware that the medical fraternity is under huge IT pressure. They just don&#8217;t have the infrastructure, machines, support or software needed to store patient data, get lab results across distances and collaborate on diagnoses and management methods. Already thinking Wiki?  Well, the seed of the idea is to get gov sponsorship or other to roll out an Ubuntu network to all hospitals. Stable. Locked down. Network perhaps over dialup.  Hospitals prob get MS licenses for free &#8211; but the machines keep crashing. Baragwanath hospital for instance, (largest hospital in the world, in Joburg) &#8211; has FIVE working terminals. That&#8217;s ridiculous.  Wondering what people think?  And if there&#8217;s any takeup to the idea? Link to the article is on my name above&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: liquidat</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-21882</link>
		<dc:creator>liquidat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 01:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-21882</guid>
		<description>It would be nice to have the ability to collaborate on stuff. One way I would *love* to see is to have a jabber account with jingle support.
The jingle p2p system could take over the data exchange part (maybe with keys to have company secrets secured) and could make sure whom you are working together with, and the app developers could concentrate on the app.

Also, with jingle we would have already a telephone and a video conferencing software (ok, some bits not ready yet, but that can be done).

A good start would be to first have a good jabber/jingle client (maybe in telepathy with an example client to not disgruntle gaim and kopete) with full audio, video and file sharing support. The next step would be to add a collaborating sketch board (Coccinella is a client which can do this already, I think, there should be some code usable; also the kdevelop guys develop something like that for their development suite) to be able to collaborate on simple drawings and sketches. After that a simple text editor and a simple wiki should follow.
With the experiences gained from these projects the next big step would be full integration into OpenOffice/KOffice - and together with this integration the project could settle on stable APIs which other app developers could use to also integrate this new awesome app with their apps.

Last but not least there would follow a collaboration management server for collaborational work.

I think that this sounds like a cool plan - the only thing left now are some developers and some people with a realy vision to drive the project and the developers into the right direction. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be nice to have the ability to collaborate on stuff. One way I would *love* to see is to have a jabber account with jingle support.<br />
The jingle p2p system could take over the data exchange part (maybe with keys to have company secrets secured) and could make sure whom you are working together with, and the app developers could concentrate on the app.</p>
<p>Also, with jingle we would have already a telephone and a video conferencing software (ok, some bits not ready yet, but that can be done).</p>
<p>A good start would be to first have a good jabber/jingle client (maybe in telepathy with an example client to not disgruntle gaim and kopete) with full audio, video and file sharing support. The next step would be to add a collaborating sketch board (Coccinella is a client which can do this already, I think, there should be some code usable; also the kdevelop guys develop something like that for their development suite) to be able to collaborate on simple drawings and sketches. After that a simple text editor and a simple wiki should follow.<br />
With the experiences gained from these projects the next big step would be full integration into OpenOffice/KOffice &#8211; and together with this integration the project could settle on stable APIs which other app developers could use to also integrate this new awesome app with their apps.</p>
<p>Last but not least there would follow a collaboration management server for collaborational work.</p>
<p>I think that this sounds like a cool plan &#8211; the only thing left now are some developers and some people with a realy vision to drive the project and the developers into the right direction. <img src='http://www.markshuttleworth.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Timo Aaltonen</title>
		<link>http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73/comment-page-1#comment-21846</link>
		<dc:creator>Timo Aaltonen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/73#comment-21846</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s already O3Spaces that works with both Openoffice.org/Staroffice and MS Office. Don&#039;t know if it&#039;s any good.
http://o3spaces.org/

It is true that similar funcionality as OSS is quite desirable</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s already O3Spaces that works with both Openoffice.org/Staroffice and MS Office. Don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s any good.<br />
<a href="http://o3spaces.org/" rel="nofollow">http://o3spaces.org/</a></p>
<p>It is true that similar funcionality as OSS is quite desirable</p>
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